Please discuss.... http://www.islamreview.com/articles/lying.shtml Lying in Islam By Abdullah Al Araby Like most religions, Islam in general, forbids lying. The Quran says, "Truly Allah guides not one who transgresses and lies." Surah 40:28. In the Hadith, Mohammed was also quoted as saying, "Be honest because honesty leads to goodness, and goodness leads to Paradise. Beware of falsehood because it leads to immorality, and immorality leads to Hell." However, unlike most religions, within Islam there are certain provisions under which lying is not simply tolerated, but actually encouraged. The book "The spirit of Islam," by the Muslim scholar, Afif A. Tabbarah was written to promote Islam. On page 247, Tabbarah stated: "Lying is not always bad, to be sure; there are times when telling a lie is more profitable and better for the general welfare, and for the settlement of conciliation among people, than telling the truth. To this effect, the Prophet says: 'He is not a false person who (through lies) settles conciliation among people, supports good or says what is good." In exploring this puzzling duplicity within Islam, we will examine first some examples from recent and ancient Islamic history. These examples demonstrate that lying is a common policy amongst Islamic clerics and statesmen. In June of 1967 Egypt was defeated by Israel and lost the Sinai Peninsula during the "Six Day War." Subsequently, Egypt's primary focus became to regain the lost territory. President Nasser, and then, President Sadat, adopted the motto: "No voice should rise over the voice of The Battle." The soldiers that had been drafted in 1967 were kept in service and remained on high alert in the expectation that at any day "the battle" would ensue. Nonetheless, years pasted and Egypt's people became disgruntle with the political hype and the "no peace, and no war" status. In 1972 Sadat proclaimed with finality that it was to be the year for the long anticipated battle. Throughout the year he swore, "I swear to you by my honor that this year will not pass by, before we launch The Battle." People believed him because he was staking his reputation and honor through an oath. To everyone's amazement the year passed without a single shot being fired. As a result many, inside and outside Egypt, began to dismiss him as a "hot air bluff". This opinion was confirmed in the following year of 1973. He made no further mention of his oath about the battle. Many of the draftees were released and numerous officers were given vacation furloughs. Then without warning, in October of 1973, he launched the attack and what was known as the Yom Kippur war began. As a military commander, Sadat was expected to use the element of surprise to trick the enemy. As a devout Muslim, Sadat was not the least bit concerned about his un-kept oath. He understood that the history and teachings of Islam would exempt him from spiritual accountability if he used lies as a foundation for a strategic military maneuver. This point is proven by many incidences in the life of Mohammed. He often lied and instructed his followers to do the same. He rationalized that the prospect of success in missions to extend Islam's influence overrode Allah's initial prohibitions against lying. A good example of sanctioned lying is the account of the assassination of Kaab Ibn al-Ashrf, a member of the Jewish tribe, Banu al-Nudair. It had been reported that Kaab had shown support for the Qurai****es in their battle against Mohammed. This was compounded by another report that infuriated Mohammed. It was alleged that Kaab had recited amorous poetry to Muslim women. Mohammed asked for volunteers to rid him of Kaab Ibn al-Ashraf. As Mohammed put it, Kaab had "Harmed Allah and His Apostle." At that time Kaab Ibn al-Ashraf, and his tribe were strong, so it was not easy for a stranger to infiltrate and execute the task. A Muslim man by the name of Ibn Muslima, volunteered for the murderous project on the condition that Mohammed would allow him to lie. With Mohammed's consent, Ibn Muslima, went to Kaab and told him fabricated stories that reflected discontent about Mohammed's leadership. When he had gained Kaab's trust he lured him away from his house one night and murdered him in a remote area under the cover of darkness. A similar example can be found in the story of killing Shaaban Ibn Khalid al-Hazly. It was rumored that Shaaban was gathering an army to wage war on Mohammed. Mohammed retaliated by ordering Abdullah Ibn Anis to kill Shaaban. Again, the would-be killer asked the prophet's permission to lie. Mohammed agreed and then ordered the killer to lie by stating that he was a member of the Khazaa clan. When Shaaban saw Abdullah coming, he asked him, "From what tribe are you?" Abdullah answered, "From Khazaa." He then added, "I have heard that you are gathering an army to fight Mohammed and I came to join you." Abdullah started walking with Shaaban telling him how Mohammed came to them with the heretical teachings of Islam, and complained how Mohammed badmouthed the Arab patriarchs and ruined the Arab's hopes. They continued in conversation until they arrived at Shaaban's tent. Shaaban's companions departed and Shaaban invited Abdullah to come inside and rest. Abdullah sat there until the atmosphere was quiet and he sensed that everyone was asleep. Abdullah severed Shaaban's head and carried it to Mohammed as a trophy. When Mohammed sighted Abdullah, he jubilantly shouted, "Your face has been triumphant (Aflaha al- wajho)." Abdullah returned the greeting by saying, "It is your face, Apostle of Allah, who has been triumphant. (Aflaha wajhoka, ye rasoul Allah)." Provisions for lying in Islam Most Muslims are familiar with the principles of Islam that will justify lying in situations where they sense the need to do so. Among these are: War is deception. The necessities justify the forbidden. If faced by two evils, choose the lesser of the two. These principles are derived from passages found in the Quran and the Hadith. In the Quran, Allah, allegedly, says: " Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth Allah make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful." Surah 5:89 "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness (vain) in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing." Surah 2:225 "Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief, except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty." Surah 16: 106 The noted Islamic commentator, Al-Tabary explained Surah 16:106 as a verse that had been revealed to Mohammed after he learned that Ammar Ibn Yasser was forced to deny his faith in Mohammed when kidnapped by the Banu Moghera tribe. Mohammed consoled Ammar by telling him, "If they turned, you turn." (Meaning: if they again capture you, you are allowed to deny me again.) These and similar passages from the Quran clearly reveal that Muslims' unintentional lies are forgivable and that even their intentional lies can be absolved by performing extra duties. It is also clear that if forced to do so, Muslims can lie while under oath and can even falsely deny faith in Allah, as long as they maintain the profession of faith in their hearts. In the Hadith, Mohammed, emphasizes the same concept. From "Ehiaa Oloum al-Din," by the famous Islamic scholar al-Ghazali, Vol. 3: PP.284-287: One of Mohammed's daughters, Umm Kalthoum, testified that she had never heard the Apostle of Allah condone lying, except in these three situations: For reconciliation among people. In war. Amongst spouses, to keep peace in the family. One passage from the Hadith quotes Mohammed as saying: "The sons of Adam are accountable for all lies except those uttered to help bring reconciliation between Muslims." Another says, "Aba Kahl, reconcile among people."(Meaning: even through lying.) The following quote demonstrates the broadness of situations in which the prophet permitted lying. "The sons of Adam are accountable for all lies with these exceptions: During war because war is deception, to reconcile among two quarreling men, and for a man to appease his wife." The principle of Al-Takeyya The Arabic word, "Takeyya", means "to prevent," or guard against. The principle of Al Takeyya conveys the understanding that Muslims are permitted to lie as a preventive measure against anticipated harm to one's self or fellow Muslims. This principle gives Muslims the liberty to lie under circumstances that they perceive as life threatening. They can even deny the faith, if they do not mean it in their hearts. Al-Takeyya is based on the following Quranic verse: "Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution (prevention), that ye may Guard yourselves from them (prevent them from harming you.) But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah." Surah 3: 28 According to this verse a Muslim can pretend to befriend infidels (in violation of the teachings of Islam) and display adherence with their unbelief to prevent them from harming him. Under the concept of Takeyya and short of killing another human being, if under the threat of force, it is legitimate for Muslims to act contrary to their faith. The following actions are acceptable: Drink wine, abandon prayers, and skip fasting during Ramadan. Renounce belief in Allah. Kneel in homage to a deity other than Allah. Utter insincere oaths. The implications of the principle of Al-Takeyya Unfortunately, when dealing with Muslims, one must keep in mind that Muslims can communicate something with apparent sincerity, when in reality they may have just the opposite agenda in their hearts. Bluntly stated, Islam permits Muslims to lie anytime that they perceive that their own well-being, or that of Islam, is threatened. In the sphere of international politics, the question is: Can Muslim countries be trusted to keep their end of the agreements that they sign with non-Muslim nations? It is a known Islamic practice, that when Muslims are weak they can agree with most anything. Once they become strong, then they negate what they formerly vowed. The principle of sanctioning lying for the cause of Islam bears grave implications in matters relating to the spread of the religion of Islam in the West. Muslim activists employ deceptive tactics in their attempts to polish Islam's image and make it more attractive to prospective converts. They carefully try to avoid, obscure, and omit mentioning any of the negative Islamic texts and teachings. An example of Islamic deception is that Muslim activists always quote the passages of the Quran from the early part of Mohammed's ministry while living in Mecca. These texts are peaceful and exemplify tolerance towards those that are not followers of Islam. All the while, they are fully aware that most of these passages were abrogated (cancelled and replaced) by passages that came after he migrated to Medina. The replacement verses reflect prejudice, intolerance, and endorse violence upon unbelievers In conclusion, it is imperative to understand, that Muslim leaders can use this loop-hole in their religion, to absolve them from any permanent commitment. It is also important to know that what Muslim activists say to spread Islam may not always be the whole truth. When dealing with Muslims, what they say is not the issue. The real issue is, what they actually mean in their hearts.
Islam Review The Pen vs. the Sword Who are we? What do we stand for? Background Long before this ministry was incorporated, we were individually involved in the same kind of activity but with somewhat different focus. At first we were concentrating more on the task of defending the human rights of Christians living under Islamic regimes in the Middle East. It was logical, to our minds, that since we were once living under these same circumstances, that we would have feelings of compassion towards our brethren who were still there. These feelings have not changed, and these efforts have not stopped. However, we recently, came to the realization that we could not separate the teachings of Islam from the plight of those people. Muslims are not inherently violent; it is their interpretation of some of Islam's teachings, that make some of them act that way. Accordingly, we decided to expand our ministry to expose these teachings, especially after we learned that Muslim activists were working fervently to convert America to Islam. Our concern was that, while we were defending our people in the Middle East, we did not want our children or grandchildren in America to face the same problems we did in our mother countries, if Islam were to take over America. Our Theology This ministry was established as a Christian organization. Our beliefs, methods and activities are based on and influenced by Christian ethics. Our members are Christians who belong to different Christian denominations. We do not interfere in each persons beliefs and practices. However, we all share the belief in a basic set of doctrines recognized and accepted by most mainstream Christian churches. These beliefs are incorporated in what is known as "the Nicene Creed." Our Support This ministry is 100% based on volunteerism. Nobody gets a salary, and we don't have a payroll. All revenues go to the actual cost of producing and mailing the materials. We engage in the most effective methods of ministry that require the least amount of money. Part of our ministry is to financially assist Christians living under Islam who suffer hardships, as our budget allows. Our financial support comes mainly from our own group, and from others who share the same convictions. Our method of fund raising is to simply to declare the need, and let God do the convincing. We believe, if it is in God's will that a certain project be accomplished, He will provide for it. We don't believe in bombarding our supporters with financial requests, or applying any pressure on them to give. We encourage people to give out of a cheerful heart, from the abundance of God's blessings and only if they believe in the message of this ministry. We don't compete with the local churches in this matter, we ask our supporters to put their churches first. Our Mission Muslim activists, in their attempt to spread their religion in the West, have been deliberately hiding a certain side of their religion. They carefully avoid, obscure and omit any negative teachings of Islam in order to lure converts. Our mission is to expose these teachings that are withheld from seekers in order to help people gain a more realistic insight of what it is like to live under Islam. Our Method Our name, "The Pen vs. The Sword," well summarizes our philosophy. We believe that "the Pen is mightier than the Sword," and love is stronger than hatred. Our weapon is the pen, our ammunition is the word. The Bible says: "the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword." Hebrews 4:12. We try to make our message simple, direct and clear. We take the daring approach of proclaiming the truth in its entirety, even if it hurts. In doing so we may lose some friends or make few enemies. Of course, we don't derive any satisfaction from being disliked, we would rather be liked by everybody. The Bible says, "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men." Romans 12:18. However, we recognize that it is not possible to please everybody, at all times, and still be true to our calling. Jesus warns, "Woe to you when all men shall speak well of you,...." Luke 6:26 Perhaps what provides the balance is the fact that we do nothing out of spite or pride. Rather it is, with love and humility, that we sincerely seek the truth. If you share these same convictions, we ask that you join us in this endeavor. Your contribution, in any form, big or small, is needed, and very much appreciated link
Oh, boy, here we go again... You are free to feel whatever you want about Islam, no one is forcing you to like it. Just don't expect an 'honest debate' when you have already made up your mind. When people around here start to actually do their own research and start drawing their own conclusions for a change, maybe their 'arguments' then will actually be considered worthy of a reply after the hundreds of threads dealing with everything imaginable about Islam. I think it would be better if Muslim posters here let the non-Muslims debate it among themselves. People tend to feel insecure in times like these and need to relieve some pressure by finding a scapegoat, so I will just wish them good luck with their discussion. Let me start... Islam is evil! Islam is vile! It's a Satanic cult! I suspect the usual suspects will be taking special interest in this thread
Let me just tell you what we are taught from childhood about lying. And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I urge you to be truthful, for “Truthfulness leads to righteousness and righteousness leads to Paradise. A man will keep speaking the truth and striving to speak the truth until he will be recorded with Allaah as a siddeeq (speaker of the truth). Lying leads to immorality and immorality leads to Hellfire. A man will keep telling lies and striving to tell lies until he is recorded with Allaah as a liar.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5743; Muslim, 2607, from the hadeeth of ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him). The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to joke but he never said anything but that which was true. But if it involves telling lies, then it is not permissible, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Woe to the one who speaks and lies in order to make people laugh; woe to him, woe to him.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi and al-Nasaa’i with a jayyid isnaad. And Allaah is the Source of strength. basically, DONT LIE, even if it is just for the sake of a joke.
you can find all sorts of incorrect Hadiths.....you can pull up sh*t that says you should go walk around naked.... if you read only those Hadiths that have authenticated then its all good....there all sorts of people that have actually spent there time making sites that are supposed to be ISLAMIC SITES but are there to spread false information....created by those who hate islam.....so giddyup you can pull up a whole bunch of crap that means nothing...cause it has no validation.
Funny propaganda article. If that article's evidences lead someone to conclude that lying is okay in Islam, then every faith condones lying. For every example that article provides to prove this silly contention, I can provide a counterexample. In the Bible, God commanded Moses to lie to Pharaoh. God commanded Samuel to lie to Saul. Abraham lied by calling Sarah his sister. But these examples are fruitless because one should know that historical examples alone do not prove that a religion condones lying. I will not say that Christianity promotes lying because it doesn't. I didn't support lying when I was a devout Christian and I do not support it now as a devout Muslim. By the way, that Sadat analogy was hilarious. Sadat was a military man and politician first and foremost. He is not a Mullah nor an Islamic scholar. This article makes his lying out to be justification to prove that Islam tolerates lying. Sadat was a devout Muslim just like Bush is a devout Christian. Sadat's lies are quite minor in comparison to Bush's. I think you understand the point I am trying to make
Just to reiterate an important point.. there are many sites on the net that claim to be run by Muslims that seek to impart Islamic knowledge on whoever goes there.. but MANY of these sites contain false information and are actually run by those who hate Islam and who want to contaminate the minds of people who are actually researching the religion. I think its disgusting that some people or groups or whoever resort to tactics such as these, but it still has not stopped Islam from being one of the fastest growing religions in the world.
It doesn't seem to matter much what any religion teaches, people still end up acting like people. There are always a handful of exceptions, but most people, including people who lay claim to some form of moral authority, are more than capable of lying if they believe they'll gain some advantage from it. Framing this as a battle between religions (which is, I'm sure, the implication of this being posted) tends to obscure that obvious fact.
The entire overall meaning is inaccurate. Selectively posting quotes or verses from religious text is pointless 99% of the time. What is the overall message. The overall message of Islam certainly isn't that it is ok to lie. As was already posted here, there are instances in the bible where it is ok to lie. Is that the message of Christianity? Nor is it the message of Islam. What is inaccurate is the overal conclusion and message presented by the author.
Christians are martyred for professing their faith even when it means their own death. Muslims are martyred for lying and even abrogating their faith publicly if necessary to insinuate themselves among the infidels and then killing as many as possible. Is that not true? For Christians the gentler new covenant trumps the harsher old covenant. For those Muslims who prefer, the kinder, gentler old Muhammad trumps the later, harsher new Muhammad. Isn't that dishonest? Is that not true?
<B>Azadre First point, no that is not true.</b> <b>Second point, what are you talking about?</b> From the article: "An example of Islamic deception is that Muslim activists always quote the passages of the Quran from the early part of Mohammed's ministry while living in Mecca. These texts are peaceful and exemplify tolerance towards those that are not followers of Islam. All the while, they are fully aware that most of these passages were abrogated (cancelled and replaced) by passages that came after he migrated to Medina. The replacement verses reflect prejudice, intolerance, and endorse violence upon unbelievers." This would certainly explain why there are seemingly always two versions of Islamic explanations: moderate and extreme.
You're a Christian, right? As one, you believe all Muslims are going to hell. It's not debated, it's not questioned. To you, I am going to hell. You have never read the Qur'an. It is not meant to be read in quotes, but as an entire Surah. Do you also feel your religion to be violent because God killed people in a flood or by drowning the Egyptians who wanted to kill Moses? Do you feel your religion is intolerant because gays are doomed to hell or that the church has actively sought to persecute the Jews for centuries? And finally, do you consider you religion prejudiced because it preaches that only you are going to heaven?
<B>Azadre You're a Christian, right? As one, you believe all Muslims are going to hell. It's not debated, it's not questioned. To you, I am going to hell.</b> That's your choice. It is nothing of my doing. And you don't believe that... <b> You have never read the Qur'an. It is not meant to be read in quotes, but as an entire Surah.</b> No I have not. Are there the kind of inconsistencies that are referred to in this piece? There seem to be. The New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant, but for Islam the Older Muhammad seems in some instances to be allowed to dominate the More Recent Muhammad. That on top of this lying with honor is a troublesome combination. <b> Do you also feel your religion to be violent because God killed people in a flood or by drowning the Egyptians who wanted to kill Moses?</b> Re-read what I said about the Old vs. the New Covenant <b> Do you feel your religion is intolerant because gays are doomed to hell or that the church has actively sought to persecute the Jews for centuries?</b> Gays are not doomed to hell. They are sinners as are we all because we fall short of perfection. How has the church sought to persecute Jews for centuries? <b>And finally, do you consider you religion prejudiced because it preaches that only you are going to heaven?</b> I'm not a fundamentalist. I'm more of a cultural Christian who appreciates the message of love that the church imperfectly promotes.
The true 'message' from that article ~ Christians are good -- Muslims are bad -- good Christians will help bad Muslims. Nice work giddyup...
In fact Jesus did not say that he was here to replace the old ways but to fulfill them. It is a cop out to use that as a distinction between taking things out of context. In Medina Muhommed was being attacked. He was defending himself. It is natural that he should write about that. IT doesn't mean that it takes precedence. It is ridiculous to take any holy book and try then find things that can be taken out of context in an effort to make the entire thing look bad.
Very interesting statement. giddy, what sets you apart from other Christians who frequent the D&D, say rhester, MadMax, Grizzled?
The entire point of this thread is to degrade a faith via the use of silly examples. It is not a means to create honest discussion.
