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The press at war

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Dec 31, 2006.

  1. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    just started reading city journal when i read somewhere that editor Myron Magnet had befriended President Bush while he was govenor, and that the city journal ws required reading in the Giuliani city hall. so it seems it might provide some insight into the genesis of ideas that not only made ther way into the current administrations world view (compasionate conservatism), but perhaps the next one's as well.

    and if you live, or love, big america cities, there's a lot here to "digest," altho the article below is not necessarily representative of the last point.

    http://www.city-journal.org/html/16_4_press_at_war.html

    [rquoter]The Press at War
    James Q. Wilson

    The patriot reporter is passé.

    We are told by careful pollsters that half of the American people believe that American troops should be brought home from Iraq immediately. This news discourages supporters of our efforts there. Not me, though: I am relieved. Given press coverage of our efforts in Iraq, I am surprised that 90 percent of the public do not want us out right now.

    Between January 1 and September 30, 2005, nearly 1,400 stories appeared on the ABC, CBS, and NBC evening news. More than half focused on the costs and problems of the war, four times as many as those that discussed the successes. About 40 percent of the stories reported terrorist attacks; scarcely any reported the triumphs of American soldiers and marines. The few positive stories about progress in Iraq were just a small fraction of all the broadcasts.

    When the Center for Media and Public Affairs made a nonpartisan evaluation of network news broadcasts, it found that during the active war against Saddam Hussein, 51 percent of the reports about the conflict were negative. Six months after the land battle ended, 77 percent were negative; in the 2004 general election, 89 percent were negative; by the spring of 2006, 94 percent were negative. This decline in media support was much faster than during Korea or Vietnam.

    Naturally, some of the hostile commentary reflects the nature of reporting. When every news outlet struggles to grab and hold an audience, no one should be surprised that this competition leads journalists to emphasize bloody events. To some degree, the press covers Iraq in much the same way that it covers America: it highlights conflict, shootings, bombings, hurricanes, tornadoes, and corruption.

    But the war coverage does not reflect merely an interest in conflict. People who oppose the entire War on Terror run much of the national press, and they go to great lengths to make waging it difficult. Thus the New York Times ran a front-page story about President Bush’s allowing, without court warrants, electronic monitoring of phone calls between overseas terrorists and people inside the U.S. On the heels of this, the Times reported that the FBI had been conducting a top-secret program to monitor radiation levels around U.S. Muslim sites, including mosques. And then both the New York and Los Angeles Times ran stories about America’s effort to monitor foreign banking transactions in order to frustrate terrorist plans. The revelation of this secret effort followed five years after the New York Times urged, in an editorial, that precisely such a program be started.

    Virtually every government official consulted on these matters urged that the press not run the stories because they endangered secret and important tasks. They ran them anyway. The media suggested that the National Security Agency surveillance might be illegal, but since we do not know exactly what kind of surveillance is undertaken, we cannot be clear about its legal basis. No one should assume that the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act requires the president to obtain warrants from the special FISA court before he can monitor foreign intelligence contacts. Though the Supreme Court has never decided this issue, the lower federal courts, almost without exception, have held that “the Executive Branch need not always obtain a warrant for foreign intelligence surveillance.”

    Nor is it obvious that FISA defines all of the president’s authority. Two assistant attorneys general have argued that when the president believes that a statute unconstitutionally limits his powers, he has the right not to obey it unless the Supreme Court directs him otherwise. This action would be proper even if the president had signed into law the bill limiting his authority. I know: you are thinking, “That is just what the current Justice Department would say.” In fact, these opinions were written in the Clinton administration by assistant attorneys general Walter Dellinger and Randolph Moss.

    The president may have such power either because it inheres in his position as commander in chief or because Congress passed a law authorizing him to use “all necessary and appropriate force” against nations or people that directed or aided the attack of 9/11. Surveillance without warrants may be just such an “appropriate force.” In any event, presidents before Bush have issued executive orders authorizing searches without warrants, and Jamie Gorelick, once Clinton’s deputy attorney general and later a member of the 9/11 Commission, said that physical searches may be done without a court order in foreign intelligence cases. Such searches may well have prevented new terrorist attacks; if they are blocked in the future, no doubt we will see a demand for a new commission charged with criticizing the president for failing to prevent an attack.

    In August 2006, when the British arrested the conspirators in the plot to blow up commercial aircraft in flight, evidence suggested that two leads to them were money transactions that began in Pakistan and American intercepts of their electronic chatter. Unfortunately, the New York Times and the ACLU were not able to prevent the British from learning these things. But they would have tried to prevent them if they had been based in London.

    Suppose the current media posture about American military and security activities had been in effect during World War II. It is easy to imagine that happening. In the 1930s, after all, the well-connected America First Committee had been arguing for years about the need for America to stay out of “Europe’s wars.” Aware of these popular views, the House of Representatives extended the draft by only a one-vote margin in 1941. Women dressed in black crowded the entrance to the Senate, arguing against extending the draft. Several hundred students at Harvard and Yale, including future Yale leader Kingman Brewster and future American president Gerald Ford, signed statements saying that they would never go to war. Everything was in place for a media attack on the Second World War. Here is how it might have sounded if today’s customs were in effect:

    December 1941: Though the press supports America’s going to war against Japan after Pearl Harbor, several editorials want to know why we didn’t prevent the attack by selling Japan more oil. Others criticize us for going to war with two nations that had never attacked us, Germany and Italy.

    October 1942: The New York Times runs an exclusive story about the British effort to decipher German messages at a hidden site at Bletchley Park in England. One op-ed writer criticizes this move, quoting Henry Stimson’s statement that gentlemen do not read one another’s mail. Because the Bletchley Park code-cracking helped us find German submarines before they attacked, successful U-boat attacks increased once the Germans, knowing of the program, changed their code.

    January 1943: After President Roosevelt and Prime Minister Churchill call for the unconditional surrender of the Axis powers, several newspapers criticize them for having closed the door to a negotiated settlement. The press quotes several senators complaining that the unconditional surrender policy would harm the peace process.

    May 1943: A big-city newspaper reveals the existence of the Manhattan Project and its effort to build atomic weapons. In these stories, several distinguished scientists lament the creation of such a terrible weapon. After General Leslie Groves testifies before a congressional committee, the press lambastes him for wasting money, ignoring scientific opinion, and imperiling the environment by building plants at Hanford and Oak Ridge.

    December 1944: The German counterattack against the Allies in the Ardennes yields heavy American losses in the Battle of the Bulge. The press gives splashy coverage to the Democratic National Committee chairman’s assertion that the war cannot be won. A member of the House, a former marine, urges that our troops be sent to Okinawa.

    August 1945: After President Truman authorizes dropping the atomic bomb on Japan, many newspapers urge his impeachment.

    Thankfully, though, the press did not cover World War II the way it has covered Vietnam and Iraq. What caused this profound change? Like many liberals and conservatives, I believe that our Vietnam experience created new media attitudes that have continued down to the present. During that war, some reporters began their coverage supportive of the struggle, but that view did not last long. Many people will recall the CBS television program, narrated by Morley Safer, about U.S. Marines using cigarette lighters to torch huts in Cam Ne in 1965. Many will remember the picture of a South Vietnamese officer shooting a captured Vietcong through the head. Hardly anyone can forget the My Lai story that ran for about a year after a journalist reported that American troops had killed many residents of that village.

    Undoubtedly, similar events occurred in World War II, but the press didn’t cover them. In Vietnam, however, key reporters thought that the Cam Ne story was splendid. David Halberstam said that it “legitimized pessimistic reporting” and would show that “there was something terribly wrong going on out there.” The film, he wrote, shattered American “innocence” and raised questions about “who we were.”

    The changes came to a head in January 1968, when Communist forces during the Tet holiday launched a major attack on South Vietnamese cities. According to virtually every competent observer, these forces met a sharp defeat, but American press accounts described Tet instead as a major Communist victory. Washington Post reporter Peter Braestrup later published a book in which he explained the failure of the press to report the Tet offensive accurately. His summary: “Rarely has contemporary crisis-journalism turned out, in retrospect, to have veered so widely from reality.”

    Even as the facts became clearer, the press did not correct its false report that the North Vietnamese had won. When NBC News producer Robert Northshield was asked at the end of 1968 whether the network should put on a news show indicating that American and South Vietnamese troops had won, he rejected the idea, because Tet was already “established in the public’s mind as a defeat, and therefore it was an American defeat.”

    In the opinion of Washington Post reporter Braestrup, the news failure resulted not from ideology but from economic and managerial constraints on the press—and in his view it had no material effect on American public opinion.

    Others do not share his view. When Douglas Kinnard questioned more than 100 American generals who served in Vietnam, 92 percent said that newspaper coverage was often irresponsible or disruptive, and 96 percent said that television coverage on balance lacked context and was sensational or counterproductive.

    An analysis of CBS’s Vietnam coverage in 1972 and 1973 supports their views. The Institute for American Strategy found that, of about 800 references to American policy and behavior, 81 percent were critical. Of 164 references to North Vietnamese policy and behavior, 57 percent were supportive. Another study, by a scholar skeptical about the extent of media influence, showed that televised editorial comments before Tet were favorable to our presence by a ratio of four to one; after Tet, they were two to one against the American government’s policy.

    Opinion polls taken in 1968 suggest that before the press reports on the Tet offensive, 28 percent of the public identified themselves as doves; by March, after the offensive was over, 42 percent said they were doves.

    Sociologist James D. Wright directly measured the impact of press coverage by comparing the support for the war among white people of various social classes who read newspapers and news magazines with the support found among those who did not look at these periodicals very much. By 1968, when most news magazines and newspapers had changed from supporting the war to opposing it, backing for the war collapsed among upper-middle-class readers of news stories, from about two-thirds who supported it in 1964 to about one-third who supported it in 1968. Strikingly, opinion did not shift much among working-class voters, no matter whether they read these press accounts or not. Affluent people who read the press apparently have more changeable opinions than ordinary folks. Public opinion may not have changed much, but elite opinion changed greatly.

    There are countless explanations for why the media produced so many stories skeptical of or hostile to the American military involvement in Vietnam. But many of these explanations are largely myths.

    First myth: Media technology had changed. Vietnam was the first war in which television was available to a mass audience, and, as both critics and admirers of TV unite in saying, television brings the war home in often unsettling graphic images. But the Second World War also brought the struggle home through Pathé and Movietone newsreels shown in thousands of theaters nationwide at a time when Americans went to the movies remarkably often. Moreover, television accounts between 1962 and 1968 were not critical of the American effort in Vietnam, and public support for the war then actually increased.

    Second myth: The war in Vietnam was conducted without censorship. As a result, the press, with trivial exceptions, could report anything it wanted. Moreover, the absence of a formal declaration of war made it possible for several Americans, including important journalists, to travel to Hanoi, where they made statements about conditions there that often parroted the North Vietnamese party line. But the censorship rules in the Second World War and in Korea, jointly devised by the press and the government, aimed at precluding premature disclosure of military secrets, such as the location of specific combat units and plans for military attacks. The media problem in Vietnam was not the disclosure of secrets but the conveying of an attitude.

    Third myth: The press did not report military matters with adequate intelligence and context because few, if any, journalists had any military training. But that has always been the case. One veteran reporter, S. L. A. Marshall, put the real difference this way: once upon a time, “the American correspondent . . . was an American first, a correspondent second.” But in Vietnam, that attitude shifted. An older journalist in Vietnam, who had covered the Second World War, lamented the bitter divisions among the reporters in Saigon, where there were “two camps”: “those who wanted to win the war and those who wanted to lose it.” The new reporters filed exciting, irreverent copy, which made it to the front pages; the veteran reporters’ copy ended up buried way in back.

    In place of these three myths, we should consider three much more plausible explanations: the first is the weak and ambivalent political leadership that American presidents brought to Vietnam; the second is the existence in the country of a vocal radical movement; and the third is the change that has occurred in the control of media organizations.

    First, Presidents Kennedy and Johnson both wanted to avoid losing Vietnam without waging a major war in Asia. Kennedy tried to deny that Americans were fighting. A cable that his administration sent in 1962 instructed diplomats and soldiers never to imply to reporters any “all-out U.S. involvement.” Other messages stressed that “this is not a U.S. war.” When David Halberstam of the New York Times wrote stories criticizing the South Vietnamese government, Kennedy tried to have him fired because he was calling attention to a war that we did not want to admit we were fighting.

    Johnson was willing to say that we were fighting, but without any cost and with rosy prospects for an early victory. He sought to avoid losing by contradictory efforts to appease doves (by bombing halts and peace feelers), satisfy hawks (with more troops and more bombing), and control the tactical details of the war from the Oval Office. After the Cam Ne report from Morley Safer, Johnson called the head of CBS and berated him in language I will not repeat here.

    When Richard Nixon became president, he wanted to end the war by pulling out American troops, and he did so. None of the three presidents wanted to win, but all wanted to report “progress.” All three administrations instructed military commanders always to report gains and rely on suspect body counts as a way of measuring progress. The press quickly understood that they could not trust politicians and high-level military officers.

    Second, unlike either World War II or the Korean conflict, there was a radical peace movement in America, much of it growing out of the New Left. There has been domestic opposition to most of our wars (Karlyn Bowman and I have estimated the size of the “peace party” to be about one-fifth of the electorate), but to this latent public resistance was added a broad critique of American society that opposed the war as not only wrong as policy but immoral and genocidal—and, to college students, a threat to their exemption from the draft. Famous opponents of the war traveled to Hanoi to report on North Vietnam. Attorney General Ramsey Clark said that there was neither crime nor internal conflict there. Father Daniel Berrigan described the North Vietnamese people as having a “naïve faith in human goodness.” Author Mary McCarthy said these folks had “grace” because they lacked any sense of “alienation.”

    I repeated for the Iraq War the analysis that Professor Wright had done of the impact of the media on public opinion during the Vietnam War. Using 2004 poll data, I found a similar effect: Americans who rarely watched television news about the 2004 political campaign were much more supportive of the war in Iraq than were those who watched a great deal of TV news. And the falloff in support was greatest for those with a college education.

    Third, control of the press had shifted away from owners and publishers to editors and reporters. During the Spanish-American War, the sensationalist press, led by Joseph Pulitzer’s New York World and St. Louis Post-Dispatch, William Randolph Hearst’s New York Journal, and Joseph Medill’s Chicago Tribune all actively supported the war. Hearst felt, perhaps accurately, that he had helped cause it. His New York paper printed this headline: how do you like the journal’s war? Even the New York Times supported the Spanish-American War, editorializing that the Anti-Imperialist League was treasonable and later that the Filipinos “have chosen a bloody way to demonstrate their incapacity for self-government.”

    Today, strong owners are almost all gone. When Henry Luce died, Time magazine’s support for an assertive American foreign policy died with him. William Paley had worked hard to make CBS a supporter of the Vietnam War, but he could not prevent Walter Cronkite from making his famous statement, on the evening news show of February 19, 1968, that the war had become a “stalemate” that had to be ended, and so we must “negotiate.” On hearing these remarks, President Johnson decided that the country would no longer support the war and that he should not run for reelection. Over three decades later, Cronkite made the same mistake: we must, he said, get out of Iraq now.

    There are still some family owners, such as the Sulzbergers, who exercise control over their newspapers, but they have moved politically left. Ken Auletta has described Arthur Sulzberger, Jr., as a man who has “leaned to the left,” but “leaned” understates the matter. Sulzberger was a passionate opponent of the war in Vietnam and was arrested more than once at protest rallies. When he became publisher in 1997, he chose the liberal Howell Raines to control the editorial page and make it, Sulzberger said, a “more assertive, populist page.”

    Other media companies, once run by their founders and principal owners, are now run by professional managers who report to directors interested in profits, not policy. Policy is the province of the editors and reporters, who are governed by their personal views, many of them acquired not by having once covered the police beat but from a college education. By 1978, 93 percent of the top reporters and editors had college degrees.

    These three factors worked in concert and have carried down to the present. The ambivalent political leadership of three presidents during Vietnam made the press distrust American leaders, even when, as during the Iraq War, political leadership has been strong. The New Left movement in the 1960s and 1970s slowly abandoned many of its slogans but left its legacy in much of the press and Democratic Party elites. The emergence of journalism as a craft independent of corporate owners reinforced these trends. As one journalist wrote, reporters “had come to reject the idea that they were in any sense part of the American ‘team.’ ” This development happened slowly in Vietnam. Journalists reported most events favorably for the American side from August 1965 to January 1968, but that attitude began shifting with press coverage of Senator J. William Fulbright’s hostile Senate hearings and climaxed with the Tet offensive in January 1968. Thereafter, reporters and editors increasingly shared a distrust of government officials, an inclination to look for cover-ups, and a willingness to believe that the government acted out of bad motives.

    A watershed of the new attitude is the New York Times’s coverage of the Pentagon papers in 1971. These documents, prepared by high officials under the direction of Defense Secretary Robert McNamara, were leaked to the Times by a former State Department staffer, Daniel Ellsberg. The Times wrote major stories, supposedly based on the leaked documents, summarizing the history of our Vietnam involvement.

    Journalist Edward Jay Epstein has shown that in crucial respects, the Times coverage was at odds with what the documents actually said. The lead of the Times story was that in 1964 the Johnson administration reached a consensus to bomb North Vietnam at a time when the president was publicly saying that he would not bomb the north. In fact, the Pentagon papers actually said that, in 1964, the White House had rejected the idea of bombing the north. The Times went on to assert that American forces had deliberately provoked the alleged attacks on its ships in the Gulf of Tonkin to justify a congressional resolution supporting our war efforts. In fact, the Pentagon papers said the opposite: there was no evidence that we had provoked whatever attacks may have occurred.

    In short, a key newspaper said that politicians had manipulated us into a war by means of deception. This claim, wrong as it was, was part of a chain of reporting and editorializing that helped convince upper-middle-class Americans that the government could not be trusted.

    Reporters and editors today are overwhelmingly liberal politically, as studies of the attitudes of key members of the press have repeatedly shown. Should you doubt these findings, recall the statement of Daniel Okrent, then the public editor at the New York Times. Under the headline, is the new york times a liberal newspaper? Okrent’s first sentence was, “Of course it is.”

    What has been at issue is whether media politics affects media writing. Certainly, that began to happen noticeably in the Vietnam years. And thereafter, the press could still support an American war waged by a Democratic president. In 1992, for example, newspapers denounced President George H. W. Bush for having ignored the creation of concentration camps in Bosnia, and they supported President Clinton when he ordered bombing raids there and in Kosovo. When one strike killed some innocent refugees, the New York Times said that it would be a “tragedy” to “slacken the bombardment.” These air attacks violated what passes for international law (under the UN Charter, people can only go to war for immediate self-defense or under UN authorization). But these supposedly “illegal” air raids did not prevent Times support. Today, by contrast, the Times criticizes our Guantánamo Bay prison camp for being in violation of “international law.”

    But in the Vietnam era, an important restraint on sectarian partisanship still operated: the mass media catered to a mass audience and hence had an economic interest in appealing to as broad a public as possible. Today, however, we are in the midst of a fierce competition among media outlets, with newspapers trying, not very successfully, to survive against 24/7 TV and radio news coverage and the Internet. As a consequence of this struggle, radio, magazines, and newspapers are engaged in niche marketing, seeking to mobilize not a broad market but a specialized one, either liberal or conservative.

    Economics reinforces this partisan orientation. Professor James Hamilton has shown that television networks take older viewers for granted but struggle hard to attract high-spending younger ones. Regular viewers tend to be older, male, and conservative, while marginal ones are likely to be younger, female, and liberal. Thus the financial interest that radio and television stations have in attracting these marginal younger listeners and viewers reinforces their ideological interest in catering to a more liberal audience.

    Focusing ever more sharply on the mostly bicoastal, mostly liberal elites, and with their more conservative audience lost to Fox News or Rush Limbaugh, mainstream outlets like the New York Times have become more nakedly partisan. And in the Iraq War, they have kept up a drumbeat of negativity that has had a big effect on elite and public opinion alike. Thanks to the power of these media organs, reduced but still enormous, many Americans are coming to see the Iraq War as Vietnam redux.

    Most of what I have said here is common knowledge. But it is common knowledge about a new period in American journalistic history. Once, powerful press owners dictated what their papers would print, sometimes irresponsibly. But that era of partisan and circulation-building distortions was not replaced by a commitment to objective journalism; it was replaced by a deep suspicion of the American government. That suspicion, fueled in part by the Vietnam and Watergate controversies, means that the government, especially if it is a conservative one, is surrounded by journalists who doubt almost all it says. One obvious result is that since World War II there have been few reports of military heroes; indeed, there have been scarcely any reports of military victories.

    This change in the media is not a transitory one that will give way to a return to the support of our military when it fights. Journalism, like so much scholarship, now dwells in a postmodern age in which truth is hard to find and statements merely serve someone’s interests.

    The mainstream media’s adversarial stance, both here and abroad, means that whenever a foreign enemy challenges us, he will know that his objective will be to win the battle not on some faraway bit of land but among the people who determine what we read and watch. We won the Second World War in Europe and Japan, but we lost in Vietnam and are in danger of losing in Iraq and Lebanon in the newspapers, magazines, and television programs we enjoy.[/rquoter]
     
  2. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    basso, the column you reprinted is as biased and inaccurate as anything I've read in a long time. Not to mention being all over the map. Putting that aside, do you seriously still believe that the "current administration's world view" is "compassionate conservatism?"

    With all due respect, have you been living under a rock??

    Also, what does the love of big American cities have to do with your post?




    D&D. Rocks are Hard Objects.
     
  3. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    apparently your extreme case of BDS has dented your reading comprehension skills:

     
  4. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Regarding my big cities comment, please accept my abject apology. I am morose.




    D&D. Quick Sand Sucks.
     
  5. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    the point of the original post was threefold. first, the article itself, which documents some of what i and others here have been saying about the presses adversarial stance in the current conflict. second, since the editors and the journal itself have readers in high places, to suggest it might be a good place to get a handle on what Bush, Giuliani and others find interesting and perhaps goin insights into their thinking. a valuable exercise i would think, regardless of whether you agree with them. lastly, to point out that the primary objective of the city journal is to write about issues that effect large american cities, not just new york, and to note, if you live in or love thos cities, it might be a good read.

    feel free to infer other motives tho if it helps you dismiss any of the above.
     
  6. Major

    Major Member

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    Shocking that the coverage of a war that's gone to hell and is a complete and total disaster would not be positive.

    No, you b****ed that the press wasn't covering all the great things that were happening in Iraq and claimed that the war was actually going well and the press just wouldn't cover it. As it turns out, you were not surprisingly wrong - the country WAS descending into chaos, and like it or not, *that* was and should have been the big story. Not that a few schools were being reopened, but the fact that violence was growing and the country was falling apart.
     
  7. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    looks like they all got the memo.

    • 3,000 Deaths in Iraq, Countless Tears at Home - New York Times

      The United States has reached another grim milestone in the war in Iraq: 3,000 military deaths.

    • TIME.com: America’s Lost 3,000 — Page 1

      What can now be derived from reaching the grim milestone of 3,000 American dead in Iraq?

    • 3,000: A grim milestone for U.S. deaths in Iraq | ajc.com

      3,000: A grim milestone for U.S. deaths in Iraq

    • At grim milestone for U.S. deaths in Iraq war, a time to reflect

      At grim milestone for U.S. deaths in Iraq war, a time to reflect

    • US mourns grim milestone- World - theage.com.au

      US mourns grim milestone

    • KWTX | US Toll In Iraq Passes grim milestone With Death Of Texas Soldier

      US Toll In Iraq Passes grim milestone With Death Of Texas Soldier

    • U.S. troop deaths reach 3,000 - CNN.com

      The grim milestone arrived a day after the execution of former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein,

    • CBC News: Death toll of U.S. soldiers in Iraq reaches 3,000: report

      The U.S. military in Iraq reached a grim milestone at year’s end

    • U.S. military deaths in Iraq reach 3,000 - Los Angeles Times

      As 2006 came to an end, the toll of U.S. troops in Iraq hit another grim milestone , 3,000 dead.
     
  8. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    What else should they call it? A happy joyous occasion?

    [rquoter]

    • Revelers gather in Times Square for 2007
      Houston Chronicle

    • Times Square rings in 2007
      CNN International
      Hundreds of thousands of revelers from all over the world flooded Times Square on Sunday

    • Revelers pack Times Square, usher in 2007
      Boston Globe

    • Revelers ring in 2007 in Times Square
      Houston Chronicle (again)

    • Revelers Ring in 2007 in Times Square
      Forbes

    • One million revelers expected in Times Square
      USA Today

    • Countdown to Times Square party; 1 million expected
      A record 1 million revelers are expected to pack Times Square to ring in 2007...
      CNN

    • With tourism at a peak, Times Square hits stride for New Year's
      An incalculable number of revelers will flood Times Square Sunday evening for a celebration...
      International Herald Tribune

    [/rquoter]

    MY GOD BASSO!

    You've uncovered a vast conspiracy that is so complex that it winds its way from a conspiracy to discredit the president all the way down to telling us how to think about New Years Eve!

    THE HORROR! THE HUMANITY!

    SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!

    :eek:

    :p
     
  9. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Happy New Year, Ottomaton! :D



    D&D. Grim Milestones Await Revelers!
     
  10. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    This is the preferred basso spin:

    Thousands More Dead In Continuing Iraq Victory

    America marks three and a half years of winning in Iraq, and nearly 3,000 victory deaths

    Statistics released by the Department Of Defense estimated that 2,937 U.S. troops and over 100,000 Iraqi civilians have died in the ongoing American military victory in Iraq.

    "Victory deaths are at a higher level than we had anticipated, yes," Gen. George Casey, Jr. said at a press conference shortly after the figures were released. "But one of the crucial lessons of our Vietnam experience is that a victory, in order to remain victorious, can't be abandoned halfway through, or in the case of Iraq, one-eighth of the way through."

    "And significantly more troops may be required if we are to continue to enjoy that victory, especially if this turns into an all-out civil war," Casey added, stressing that it was still too early to deem the victory a "quagmire."

    Debate continues over whether U.S. troops should be withdrawn from the Iraqi theater of victory. While some in Congress argue that a withdrawal would force Iraqi leadership to enforce the victory on their own, many military experts say that Iraqi troops remain insufficiently trained and unprepared to handle the daily perils of victory.

    President Bush has consistently warned that if we hand over victory to local forces right away, there's a risk that victory may worsen, as Iraqis won't be able to contend with the guerrilla attacks and improvised explosive devices that claim the lives of dozens of the victorious every day.

    "We're paying dearly in the form of American lives," Bush said, "but, plainly speaking, that's just victory for you."

    Casey's remarks came nearly two weeks after some 200 Iraqi Shi'ites died in a series of car bombs in Baghdad's Sadr City, the largest single victory-related death toll since the U.S. won the Iraq War in 2003.

    In an address to the nation Dec. 10, President Bush predicted that, if efforts continue as they have in Iraq, "This could become America's longest victory ever," Bush said.

    http://www.theonion.com/content/node/56628
     
  11. arno_ed

    arno_ed Contributing Member

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    it is funny.

    When people do not like the news they are told they blame the person telling them, because he cannot speak the truth. Since people only want to hear the truth if it suits their idea's

    It is comparable with a person who is told by his best friend that his girlfriend is cheating on him. He doesn't believe his best friend, and gets into a fight with him. He loses his friend, and he stays with his girlfriend, who ofcourse IS cheating on him.
     
  12. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    some more from Eason Jordan, who should know a thing or two about press credibility...

    http://www.iraqslogger.com/index.php/post/486/The_APs_Jamil_Hussein_Scandal

    [rquoter]The AP's Jamil Hussein Scandal
    Controversy Will Haunt the AP Until It Does What is Right
    By EASON JORDAN Posted 17 hr. 24 min. ago
    If an Iraqi police captain by the name of Jamil Hussein exists, there is no convincing evidence of it - and that means the Associated Press has a journalistic scandal on its hands that will fester until the AP deals with it properly.

    This controversy and the AP's handling of it call into question the credibility, integrity, and smarts of one of the world's biggest, most influential, most respected news organizations, the New York-based Associated Press.

    The back story: On November 24, the AP quoted Iraqi Police Captain Jamil Hussein as the source of a sensational AP story that began this way:

    "Militiamen grabbed six Sunnis as they left Friday worship services, doused them with kerosene and burned them alive as Iraqi soldiers stood by."

    It was a horrific report that was an AP exclusive - a story picked up and reported by news outlets across the U.S. and the world.

    The U.S. military and Iraqi officials were quick to call the story baseless, saying there was no evidence that six Sunnis were burned to death in Hurriya and that there was no record of an Iraqi police captain named Jamil Hussein. The U.S. military and the Iraqi government demanded the AP retract the story and explain itself.

    The AP fired back with at least three strong statements defending the initial AP report and provided a follow-up report from Baghdad quoting anonymous witnesses as confirming the original immolation story.

    In the absence of irrefutable evidence that Captain Hussein exists and that the original AP report was accurate, bloggers and a few mainstream media journalists kept plugging away in an effort to get to the truth about whether there is a Captain Hussein and whether six Sunnis were burned alive that day.

    Five weeks after the disputed episode, key questions remain unanswered, but what is clear is the AP has botched its handling of this controversy - and it's not going away until the AP deals with it forthrightly and transparently.

    IraqSlogger's probe into the case is inconclusive, with conflicting and unconfirmed information regarding whether there's a Captain Hussein and whether the reported immolation happened.

    Inquiries by others point to there being no Captain Jamil Hussein, although there is no proof of that.

    While proof might yet surface to substantiate the AP's story - there is circumstantial but unreliable evidence in that regard - conclusive evidence has not yet materialized.

    The AP has steadfastly refused to answer questions about this episode from IraqSlogger and other news outlets and bloggers.

    In statements, the AP insists Captain Hussein is real, insists he has been known to the AP and others for years, and insists the immolation episode occurred based on multiple eyewitnesses.

    But efforts by two governments, several news organizations, and bloggers have failed to produce such evidence or proof that there is a Captain Jamil Hussein. The AP cannot or will not produce him or convincing evidence of his existence.

    It is striking that no one has been able to find a family member, friend, or colleague of Captain Hussein. Nor has the AP told us who in the AP's ranks has actually spoken with Captain Hussein. Nor has the AP quoted Captain Hussein once since the story of the disputed episode.

    Therefore, in the absence of clear and compelling evidence to corroborate the AP's exclusive story and Captain Hussein's existence, we must conclude for now that the AP's reporting in this case was flawed.

    To make matters worse, Captain Jamil Hussein was a key named source in more than 60 AP stories on at least 25 supposed violent incidents over eight months.

    Until this controversy is resolved, every one of those AP reports is tainted.

    When two governments challenge the veracity of your reporting, when there are reasonable doubts about whether your prime named source for a sensational exclusive story exists, when there's no proof a reported horrific incident occurred, when the news outlet responsible for the disputed report stonewalls and is stridently defensive, when the validity of dozens of other of your reports has been called into question as a result, then that news organization has a scandal on its hands, and that is where the AP finds itself.

    Having learned from my own successes and failures and those of others, I know that a journalistic scandal can be handled effectively only when the news organization's management deals with it proactively, constructively, and transparently, with a readiness to admit any mistake, to apologize for it, and to take appropriate corrective action.

    The AP has failed to do so in this case.

    I, therefore, urge the AP to appoint an independent panel to determine the facts about the disputed report, to determine whether Iraqi Police Captain Jamil Hussein exists, and to share the panel's full findings and recommendations with the public.

    Until this matter is resolved, the AP's credibility will suffer.

    Meantime, IraqSlogger and others will doggedly pursue the truth in this case.[/rquoter]
     
  13. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    I'm all in favor of checking the media's stories.

    basso, I have two questions for you?

    1. You have stated before that you believe we are winning (or at least not losing the war). What are your criteria for making that claim? What events on the ground in Iraq do you base your assertion on?

    2. Are you ever going to answer the above question since it was asked of you multiple times before?

    I'm sure it is hard to answer all the questions/arguments thrown at you since you are pretty much the only war supporter left on the boards, but I am really interested to hear your take.
     
  14. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    basso I'm waiting for you and "IraqSlogger"s retractions and apologies....
    Caruso sez burn baby burn.

    <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KxR1exWMMkg"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KxR1exWMMkg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
     
  15. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    well, that's just great, since the existance of a source is at least one crucial piece of evidence towards credibility. now, how about AP address the rest of the story's factual errors?

    and i assume you know who IraqSlogger is? last i checked, eason jordan was not a card carrying memebr of the neocon blogosphere.
     
  16. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Ha ha ha, way to try to play it off. Unfortunately, Michelle Malkin and the rest of the right wing internet brigade to which you aspire now redirect to another site: www.iwaspwnedlikealittlebitchandnowhavetosaveface.com

    Just accept your beating and go quietly. These idiots whipped themselves into a full scale, old-fashioned, frothy mouthed hysterical rightwing internet witch hunt, based on an old favorite (media bias) prompted by a clerical error by some iraqi file clerk who probably was distracted, what with the people trying repeatedly to kill him in his sorry excuse for a nation-state that you wanted for Christmas 2003.
     
    #16 SamFisher, Jan 5, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2007
  17. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    The sources were checked, and they panned out. They were legit.

    It seems most of what you are calling errors in the story stemmed from this one thing. Now that that is cleared up, there isn't much left.
     
  18. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    basso are you going to join in with Michelle Malkin's fact-finding mission? I wonder if it is still on. Maybe you can replace "Curt from Flopping Aces"

    Maybe she can just see the sights now that this business is over with.

    Here's her response:
     
    #18 SamFisher, Jan 5, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2007
  19. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    i'm glad one of us reads michele- personally, i can't stand the sight, nor the site, of her, but i'm glad to see you cite her.

    can't make the iraq trip unfortunately, although i am off for four days in the desert sands...
     
  20. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

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    Max Boot is no flaming pinko...

     

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