Just curious who is looking forward to seeing this movie? There has been a little controversy thus far, but things, for the most part, have been fairly tame. Anyone worried about the anti-semitism angle? For reference, here is a long article. I am hoping this will not be an argumentative religious thread, as I am just trying to guage interest in the movie. Regardless, I apologize in advance if it gets ugly and the admins have to move it to the other room. EDIT: well, I am an idiot. I already put it in the "ugly" section. Damn.
I have heard it has some anti-semetic themes, but I hope it doesnt. Some Romans were probably at fault, some Jews were probably at fault, but who cares now? We cant blame Italy or the Jewish religion for anything, and I hope the movie isnt about who did it either. Hopefully the film just tells the powerful story of Jesus Christ and his followers, because it is powerful. It is going to be like a passion play I think so be ready for an emphasis on the physical suffering of Jesus as well. I am Catholic myself, and I just hope Mel Gibson doesnt ruin this story for everybody. Thats all I can say without having viewed it.
I have zero interest in seeing this. I've already seen the Life of Brian. It's also like the book/movie dealies - I've read the Old and New Testament, some of the Gnostic Gospels, so what's the big deal about a Hollywood spin on things? Maybe this movie will be popular in America and Italy. On the other hand, to make this D&D material, have this on a double bill with the movie version of The Da Vinci Code.
You choose "Life of Brian" over Passion. And you advocate pairing the Mel Gibson movie with "The Da Vinci Code." Dude, you just became my new favorite poster! Awesome!
Would a movie about the native American tribes in the Southern US during the early 19th century from the tribes POV be called anti-White? I don't know if my point is being expressed clearly or not but it boils down to, sometimes history ain't so pretty and people in the past did some questionable things...and telling the story shouldn't be called bigoted if it is presented in a factual manner. Does this movie tell it in a factual manner though? (factual according to the Bible anyways)
I think it will be a very positive thing for Christianity and Christians in general. As for the whole anti-semitic issue, I think that is the biggest bunch of hogwash on Earth. Jesus was a Jew and was killed by the Jews, so what is the big deal? I don't hold them responsible because they were pawns in God's plan. I intend to see the movie, because I think it will give people an insight into those history-changing final days in the life of Jesus. Personally, I think this movie will be a great evangelical tool and a wonderful testimony of Christ's love for us.
My concern from the reports is that Mel made another Braveheart. All of one race (English, Jews, etc) are the 'bad guys' to help us ignorant moviegoers understand who to root for.
I have a mild interest in seeing this. I don't know exactly what to say about the anti-semitic angle until after I've watched the movie. I think it's inaccurate to try and portray the Jewish people as bad guys in a movie about Christ. It would be accurate to show that some of the corrupt bad guys were Jewish, but to lay blame on all Jews at the time isn't biblical. I will have to see the movie though to know if that's what they do. If, like Cohen mentioned, it is another Braveheart with the Jews taking over the role of oppressive villains from the English then I understand the anger. Life of Brian on the other hand is a classic, and probably a much better movie.
The Jews killed a man because he said he was exactly what they had been waiting for for centuries. People forget that this stuff really happened, and Jesus really did rise from the dead. This movie could open the floodgates into stirring curiosity over Christianity, some men of God are calling it "the biggest evangelistic opportunity the world has ever seen." I doubt it will reach that, but who knows, I'll go see it.
I don't think people really understand teh controversy. See, there was a time before the 60's when the Catholic church, which yours truly is a member of, believed all Jews had a blood guilt in the death of Jesus. That is, we should hold all Jews past, present, and future responsible. Gibson is part of a group of Catholics who don't accept the changes. I don't know how he personally feels, but his fellow members sure do hold Jews responsible for the death of Jesus. Have Jews protested other movies about Jesus? I don't really know, but if they haven't, doesn't that make people wonder just a little bit at what they're worried about?
All Jews into the forseeable future are responsible for this one mans' death? That's kind of a weird logic. It's sort of asking for genocide in the name of a god.
The issue is not really who killed Jesus. Jews or the Romans makes no difference. The essence of the message is that Jesus chose to leave his glory in heaven to go to the cross and bridge the gap between God and man that Adam had burned. Jesus chose to die for all to know God. They didn't kill Him. He gave Himself. It was His choice, and no one else's. As for the movie? Are you kidding me? Why would this not be controversial... Jesus Himself is. I'll see the movie, but I won't take my 2 or 4 yr. olds. I'm sure it will be bloody, and gut wrenching for some.... hence the "R" rating. But that's why Mel Gibson did it. To let people see just how serious a crucifixion was, and just to what lengths Jesus went on behalf of our need to have a mediator between God and man. This movie will send ripples around the globe. What you've seen or heard so far, ain't nothin'. BTW - Woofer, that "weird logic" (I agree, its at least scary to wish that on ones' self and nationality) was uttered by a Jewish man, not a Christian. Not saying you didn't know that, just clarify for some who may not. Remember, Jesus was a Jew who came for the Jews primarily, and the term Christian came much later onduring the first century after Christ's death and resurrection. The following of Christ was originally known as a sect of Judiasm dubbed "The Way" primarily after Jesus' words in John 14:6. Also the "Da Vinci Code" as far as I know has been dubbed fiction by both the author, and publishers... I believe that's where it is listed at the bookstore, and its sales are trackable to an exact figure over a recent, short amount of time. While the at least the "Old Testament" of the "Bible" has been accepted as fact by an innumerable amount of people since the start of the A.D. timetable... and the complete cannon of scripture since shortly after. I find it odd that the literal "best seller of all time" is not ever listed atop the NY Times Best Seller List. Even if you were to choose an old classic such as "Citizen Kane" over "Passion" it would still be based on subject matter of understandly less significance to the human existence. And IIRC, "Life of Brian" is hardly an accurate Biblical portrayal. I'm sorry you feel that way. I hope you'll reconsider and at least view it once. The LOTR movies add something (or not) to the experience of the books, and this may prove to be quite similar. I know this will be but a snippet of the Bible portrayed on film, but it is the "key center" to use a Bible Scholar term of the message in the Bible. At least see it once.... please? I'd watch the "Da Vinci Code" movie.
I think the point of that doctrine was to show how we are all Jewish in that we are all the chosen people of God. That said, the Jews killed Jesus, we are all Jews, therefore, we all killed Jesus.
Oh yeah our parish booked three theaters solid for Ash Wednesday shows. Yes, we will still go to Ash Wednesday services (even though we aren't obligated to).
I guess some of you guys did not read the article I posted. Gibson's movie, apparently, does make it look as if the Jews ordered his crucifixion, with Caiaphas being the real power/bad guy. This, of course, would be off because the Romans ruled the area pretty forcefully. They would never have the Jews dictate their law. Romans also only crucified for political reasons. Further, the article does a decent job mentioning that many many jews at the time were going around saying they were the messiah...and they were not crucified or punished in any way. Thus, the "Jews persecuted him for heresy" doesn't really fly. So, again, if anyone crucified him it was the Romans. In any event, we will only know the anti-semitism answer once the movie opens and people react to it.
rimbaud -- ultimately, i'm not sure that's important. no one disputes that ultimately the romans would have carried out the crucifixion...but they were also trying to manage rule in a culture far different than theirs. if caiphas said, "kill this man." and the mob said, "Kill this man." i don't think that pilate would have gone completely unaffected. remember, pilate was ultimately brought back to rome and disgraced because he was not considered an effective roman leader...that he let things get out of control. but there seems to be little question from the gospels or even from josephus' accounts that jesus made the temple leaders very nervous, mostly because he attacked their legalism as a barrier to a real heartfelt relationship with God. but ultimately, everyone turned their back on Jesus. if this is anti-semitic, it's also anti-disciple, because they turned their backs on him, too. men who are revered as "bible heroes" ran like cowards from to escape from being associated with this man they called Lord. the romans can't come off as heroes either...they killed an innocent man to please a mob. they stoically carry out their duty in putting an innocent man, even Jesus himself, through an extremely torturous death. and ultimately...i bear the burden of knowing that my salvation came at this price...so i am equally culpable. i can not wait to see the movie...i know people who have seen screenings and came away in utter awe. said the theater was absolutely silent at the end, and no one got up to walk out. that you can litearlly hear people sobbign. i liken the experience to Schindler's List...no one would say it's anything but an excellent movie...but it's not exactly enjoyable to watch. this is, after all, purportedly a depiction of crucifixion with the blinders off...just raw. as a christian, i can't wait to see the movie...but i'm a bit scared of it too. i know what this is going to do to me, and i don't think it will be easy for me to watch.
I badly want to see it. Perhaps it will stimulate a personal religious awakening. Perhaps not. But it should be a magnificent movie.
