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The Near Certainty of Anti-Police Violence

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by HamJam, Jul 13, 2016.

  1. Supermac34

    Supermac34 President, Von Wafer Fan Club

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    Someone posted this database in another thread:

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...n/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database#

    You can filter things like "armed" or "unarmed" and cause of death, like "gunshot". When you use the filters, you begin to see that police killing unarmed, black people is actually really, really rare. Still shouldn't happen, but we're talking about a fraction of what the media story would have you believe.

    The interesting thing is reading into individual cases. A lot of the police killing statistics include accidents, things like heart attacks, car accidents, and even non-police action related crime where the perpetrator happened to be a police officer, but was not on duty (like if a cop kills his girlfriend for cheating on him, it gets counted as a "police killing".

    Its also interesting to read how many cases where people just all out assault police, try to hit them with cars, etc.

    Also interesting: tasers kill folks too. in 2016, there have been 20 people killed that were "black", "unarmed" and "died by gunshot" from police in a country with 333,000,000 people. 105 "black", "died from gunshot" were "armed by any weapon". In the same amount of time 14 people have died by being tasered.

    Anyways, interesting database for research if accurate.
     
    #21 Supermac34, Jul 13, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  2. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    The issue here is trust. Police departments have been historically racist and that problem still exists today - this erodes trust with blacks particularly.

    Instead of blaming groups here (it's definitely not politics) - the question should be how do you rebuild trust.

    The answer is for PD across the country to make a systematic effort to rid itself of racist cops which there are a ton. If you are a racist, you shouldn't be able to police people you hate or are biased against. That seems really obvious.

    Police are held to a higher standard - as they should be. Not because they are suppose to be role models to the country (they are by the way to suppose to be role models) - but because they have incredible power over life and death and this country does not allow for extrajudicial killings.

    Because of that power - which is inherently corrupting of an individual - care must be taken that such power isn't abused.

    Being a cop isn't easy when you have to face life or death. It's scary. And officers should be allowed room to make some mistakes. But that should be the exception vs. the norm. If you kill someone in cold blood regardless of the race - you should no long be a cop and definitely should be under the consideration of prosecution.

    If cops are too scared and complain about being held to a higher standard, than they should not be cops because clearly they don't have the courage and guts to do the job right and should make room for someone who isn't just doing it for the paycheck. And those cops should be paid more with bad cops paid a lot lot less.
     
  3. ivanyy2000

    ivanyy2000 Contributing Member

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    Police in this country did a heck of job. Crime rate has been trending down for decades.

    I consider police officer a high pressure, low pay job, especially those on the front-line.

    Just dress properly, obey the police order, stop resisting the arrest and most likely you won't get shot. It is that simple.
     
  4. okierock

    okierock Contributing Member

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    I agree that racist cops should be removed. How do you propose to identify them?
     
  5. TheresTheDagger

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    Here is an example of how far apart we are as people right now.

    We can't even have 2 very well known and respected people in their communities agree on what the final outcome was concerning the Michael Brown shooting in Ferguson. EVEN AFTER the Justice Department ruled.

    What hope is there in dialogue when things like this continue to happen?

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/eZJ7QSI7uV0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  6. Buck Turgidson

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    So HamJam, I gotta ask...

    What are you doing to fight the "police state" and bring about your glorious revolution? I mean, if freedom is your goal, and armed resistance against the US government is your means, I'm curious what's going on? Is there a sign up sheet on the wall at the YMCA or something?
     
  7. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Right now there is a huge tolerance for racism in police departments, you have to change the culture first. I don't know the solution but there are departments that have been successful - Dallas is a great example.
     
  8. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    The sign ups are at Cracker Barrel and Popeye's. Go figure.
     
  9. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    I saw the one at Cracker Barrel in Lufkin, yo. Was wondering what that was all about. But it was dangerously close to the lifetime supply of cobbler raffle and I saw some old fat white dude signing up on HamJam's list. :(

    Just joshing you, HamJam. You have a logic, consistency and openness to your posts that I honestly respect.
     
  10. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    His posts have the most well thought out words I have seen no matter the medium regarding this crap that's been going on.
     
  11. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    I think the problem there is having a trained lawyer and cable TV journalist debate a comedian.
     
  12. DCkid

    DCkid Contributing Member

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    I think it's going to be hard to convince Joe the law-abiding citizen, who lives in Katy, and may have been pulled over twice for traffic violations the past decade that we are living in a police state.

    Even if that person, out of curiosity, did some research to try and find some cases of non-blacks being unjustifiably shot by police to see if killings are really lop-sided by race. Those couple of dispersed cases in a country of 320 million probably also wouldn't be enough to convince that person we are living in a police state of any degree.
     
  13. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    Yes, this is spot on.
     
  14. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    I think it's much more than the anger from black communities. That in itself, I agree, isn't going to convince much (largely because there is a strong resistance or 'you deserve it' mentally). First, ot's really all folks that are dark skinned (Indians, Middle eastern, SE Asians --- many of these folks can be confused initially as black). But much more than that, to me at least, it's folks that aren't mentally stable - mental illness, autism, temporary psychologically unstable. That's a very large group. That includes everyone across every race. We all know someone that's a bit off :cool:. Joking aside, the autism rate is alarming and the estimate is about 1 in 5 Americans have some type of mental illness. You solve the issue of how to 'police' folks that may be mentally ill, and I think you naturally help everyone, including blacks.
     
  15. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    ^ mentality.
     
  16. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    No, I don't think that is it...he held up his arguments just fine. But they were talking past each other, symptomatic of the problem in general, as were both of their stances and viewpoints.
     
  17. HamJam

    HamJam Contributing Member

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    I have a feeling that, short of saying something that would incriminate myself, you'll thumb your nose at anything I mention. I mean, I can mention the cool radical book store and all the events and workshops it hosts, I can mention my work in Food not Bombs, protest we do, prisoner programs we work with or the Radical Mental Health Collective we started. I can even mention how I and people I do these things with have formed a gun group so that people can learn to use and legally possess firearms.

    But I get the sense that, unless I tell you something that could get me arrested, that you'll dismiss all of this.

    I think it is always funny how people are so dismissive and disdainful towards non-violent direct action, but then act outraged when people start rioting and looting. It just shows how pointless it is for us to worry about public opinion. If we behave ourselves then we are ineffective pollyannaish hippies wasting our time, but if property damage and violence occurs then we are criminals who deserved to be gunned down. We can't win the narrative, so may as well try to win in the streets in whatever way it takes.

    Thanks -- and no worries. Trust me, I take issues seriously, but never myself -- and never so much where I can't laugh and crack jokes about the things I am talking about.

    Thanks for the kind words, but I don't think I merit them. Do you want to see my favorite thing I've seen written in the last week regarding all these issues? It is a facebook post actually from a black lives matter activist in Carbondale, IL who was doing a road blockade and was ran over by a white guy who drove into the crowd. I'll spoiler it since it is very long:

    On Sunday night, during a march in response to recent police killings of black people, I was hit by an angry driver and carried several hundred feet on the hood of his car. Luckily I was uninjured, but it was clear that he hit me intentionally and that he acted with disregard for my safety and even my life. In response to this incident, some people have been calling for the driver’s arrest and for legal charges to be placed on him. Even though I’m angry at this man who put my life at risk, I don’t agree with the calls for his arrest.

    I don’t want him to be arrested because calling for his arrest shows that we need the cops to solve our problems for us. But we don’t. We proved we don’t on Friday night and we proved it again on Sunday. When we can come together and when we have each other, we don’t need the cops. Looking at the video the next morning, I almost cried seeing a whole crowd of people sprinting after the car as it carried me away on the hood. After I jumped off, people I don’t know and will never be able to thank came to help me. When the driver pulled around the corner and stopped, a crowd of people ran up to him. When he jumped out of the car with his fists up, they punched him in the face, smashed in parts of his car and threw a smoke bomb inside of it.

    I don’t need the cops and their violence to make this situation better for me because we handled it in the streets. It’s over. The violence of the police, even though it’s neater and more socially acceptable, is far worse than the justice we dished out. As mad as I am, I don’t want to see that dude put in handcuffs, locked in a cage and facing charges that will follow him the rest of his life. I’ve been to jail. I’ve been beat by the cops and I’ve had charges and I don’t wish that on anybody.

    We were out there in the streets because we’ve seen this week what the cops are about. They’ll shoot you while you’re lying face down on the ground. They’ll shoot you while you’re reaching for your license with your baby in the back seat. I don’t want their help.

    Plus, this whole thing is a distraction. One ****ty dude with a temper and low impulse control shouldn’t distract us from all we are capable of doing together. Some have suggested that the focus of the upcoming march on Wednesday night be calling for the driver’s arrest. Hell no. We’ve got goals that are much bigger than that. We’ve got a whole world to build and a whole world of cops and prisons, hate and selfishness and greed to undo. Let’s not settle for less.

    Along the way we’re going to come up against reactionary people who either don’t like what we’re doing or don’t understand it. But we have to be able to sort out these conflicts by looking at who has power and who does not. From the rumors I’ve been hearing, the driver of that car worked some ****ty job at the university and was fired after what happened Sunday. For the brief moment that he hit me, he had the power of being behind the wheel of a car. And, of course, he’s got the privilege that comes with white skin in this racist society. But he doesn’t have the kind of power that our real enemies have. He’s not a cop with a gun and the right to kill, he’s not a judge with the power to lock someone in a cage for decades, he’s not a politician who changes our lives with the stroke of a pen. He’s not our real enemy. We’ve got bigger fish to fry.

    When I was on the hood of that car, gripping on while the car accelerated for what felt like forever, I was scared ****less. But I also felt calm and confident knowing that I was standing up for myself and for the things I believe in and want in this world. And I felt confident because there were a whole bunch of people I don’t even know who had my back. If you want to address what happened that night, bring your anger to the streets on Wednesday. Meet up with people, scheme about where we can take this momentum. Talk about what you love and what you hate. Don’t rely on anybody but yourselves and each other. There is no limit to what we can do together.
     

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