Pretend that this is debate club. Irregardless of your stance on the use of the 'n' word, play devil's advocate and make the following argument: The use of the 'n' word by blacks is not hypocritical to the complaint that the use of the term by non-blacks is derogatory. I know how most of us feel about this term, and I'm not trying to preach to the choir (which is pointless). In fact, although I usually want to destroy people when they use this word around me, I dismiss the fact that it is used in much of the music that I listen to. Can this argument be made? Do I have to stop listening to Tu-Pac? Make your best argument, the fate of my CD changer's assortment hangs in the balance. ------------------ I've posted so much that what I say must be true. The latest on Maurice Taylor
It's like calling your kid stupid, or your best bud dumbass. There's nothing wrong with that, but when some one you don't know does it, them fightin words. When dealing with strangers, whether or not the n word is offensive depends on the offended. Now when speaking about others not in your presense, I guess that don't matter cause it's your own private conversation. I think the main fault lies with the intent. There, that makes sense, I think.
I don't think people should use the word. It is offensive. Just because it is used a lot doesn't diminish it's original derogatory intent. ------------------ I am so exasperated that I could expectorate.
Achebe -- I don't believe "irregardless" is a word. I could be wrong, though. Yes, this is an interesting topic. One thing I've noticed is that when black people use the word amongst themselves, they say it "*****". It is also spelled this way in rap songs. Could it be a difference in spelling/pronunciation that separates the two conotations? I wish they wouldn't use it at all, though, because it gives ignorant people an excuse to say "they say it, why can't I?". ------------------ Metal Sludge
Traj, Thanks... I was hoping that I hadn't made that word up. as a side note, did you get a chance to review my response to our evolutionist/creationist conversation? I'd greatly value any ideas that you have about my post. TheFreak: I totally agree with your post... unfortunately the people that use the word tend to not be the people most capable of making a coherent argument as to why it's not hypocritical. It's for that reason that I'm trying to find another way to justify listening to r&b rap tunes like Tu-Pac. If I lose, I lose. There are plenty of Cocteau Twins, Innocence Mission and SuperChunk cds to listen to. ------------------ I've posted so much that what I say must be true. The latest on Maurice Taylor
Crisco, I agree that it doesn't diminish the original intent. But if you're not using it to express it's original derogatory intent then why is it wrong? A lot of words have an original intent that isn't used today. I call one of my close friends N(the only reason I don't type it is because I'm polite and being politically correct) and he calls me that too all the time (though I'm not black, I'm Vietnamese). Other friends call me gook, fob, chink, dumbass, but we're friends. If our usage of the N words to eachother offends you(as in people I don't know or talk to), then I apologize. Yet I just don't understand the justification to why that would be offensive to others(as in people who don't talk to us). Any one care to enlighten me? And so Achebe, when you are rapping along with the lyrical phenom Tupac, I don't think you're wrong or being offensive to anyone. He was one of the greatest MC's ever and he had a strong message. And if you're still pondering over the tic tac "is it right for me to listen cause it might be offensive" while listening to the music, then maybe you're not enjoying it, not hearing the meanings, not loving the words, and probably should listen to somethin else. There will always be racists, and everybody's ignorant in a way. I think if we just continuisly try to be good, better ourselves, open our minds, be sincere, and help others, things will be ok.
I have a theory about why the "N" word is used so much in the Black community. (I'm sure I'm not the only one either.) The word is very offensive when used by any other race and (especially) aimed at someone of African descent. I think the reason this particular word carries such a powerfully negative aura is because it carries every negative connotation of the Black race that is imaginable: slavery, non-human, ignorant, poor, etc... There simply is no other put-down, name, insult, that is even close to that word. (IMO) Why then is this word so prominent in Black society? I think it is mainly due to desensitization. I believe they somehow feel (maybe subconsciously) that if they use the word themselves that when they hear someone else use it, they will not feel the same indignity as they would if no Black person ever said it. My wife is black, and she doesn't use the word very often. In fact, the only time I have ever come close to saying that in front of her is when I say, "***** please!" And, it's not something I ever said before my relationship with her. It's something that she says and I have chosen to say (possibly to show the offensiveness of it). Before I met my wife, I can say with a clear conscience that I never called any person the "N" word. I do recall, however, as a child saying "*igger knocking" when we would knock on a door and run away. But, at the time I had no idea what it meant. I still, in my head, think "*igger knocking" whenever that subject comes up (which isn't often), and I immediately feel ashamed. I even had to stop socializing with my best friend of 10 years, because he just couldn't stop using that word even after I talked to him about it. Some may say, "Oooh big deal." But, he was truly my best friend between the ages of 10 and 20, which are very formative years. Some may also ask, "Why did you hang out with someone like that for so long?" To that I say: His racism was nowhere near as prevalent until I started dating my eventual wife. ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem. DREAMer's Rocket Page
I'll sum up the "N" vs. ***** as a black friend told me so long ago: "You say "N" we'll bust a cap in yo ass. You say '*****' we shake yo hand." Why the difference? I have no idea, but one is better than the other and I accept that without knowing why. ------------------ I need a new signature. 302
I don't use the word and I don't like people who do, but I'll tell you this much: what I dislike most about its current status in this society is when white people are afraid to use it in quoted material. Did anyone watch Mike Shanahan's press conference Wednesday? He called it 'that word', 'that term', and 'the N-word' something like 4,032 times. I think that's absurd. As did the reporters. Silly-- it's an ugly word with ugly connotations, but if I'm a reporter and I want to know Shanahan's opinion on the purported Romanowski quote, my question would be simple and direct. Have you ever heard Romanowski use the word '******'? ------------------ Is it ironic to say you've sworn off swearing?
Irregardless is not a word. It is redundant. Regardless is sufficient. I have been around a great many black people in my life. I have been called a "******" (not *****). I have been told it just means a stupid person, or whatever. I do not think it is a to numb them to it, I think it started as a defiant, "well, we can use the word for each other" kind of thing. It is trying to take the power of a word away from the abuser and giving it to the people that would otherwise be the targets. ------------------ "Feminism is a Socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy cpitalism, and become lesbians" -Rev Pat Robertson
I'm a rebel Dot, so I'm going to push for general acceptance. BK, I understand your intuition, but for some of us using this term is only safe in the most literal circumstances (i.e. lead soundproof vault w/ someone that you know ). I grew up in SC, so this is probably just a learned repression of the 'n...' damnit the 'n' word. Kim, I want to believe your explanation, but I can't put the terms 'dumbass' and the terms '******' on equal footing. That's probably a failing for me, though, not in your argument. DREAMer, Thanks for that explanation. That to me is more appealing than other explanations that I've heard. ------------------ I've posted so much that what I say must be true. The latest on Maurice Taylor [This message has been edited by Achebe (edited August 18, 2000).]
Here's something that really bugs me. I have friends who rationalize the use of the word like this: "there are black people, and then there are n*****s, just like there are white people, and there are 'white trash'". I can't stand this (it doesn't help when Chris Rock says the exact same thing in his comedy act). My feeling is that if the word can only apply to one race, and it's derogatory, then it's racist. My friends don't get this. They think it's okay, as long as they distinguish between "good" blacks and "bad" blacks. Has anyone else experienced this? ------------------ Metal Sludge
*****s please!! Its like when someone says to me I am a "motherfu**er". It all depends who they are and what they mean by it. I am Latino, grew up in an all black neighborhood in South Houston. I use it all the time. My sisters use it all the time. My friends use it all the time. We also call each other b*stard, spic, spico, dumbass, piece of s**t, asswipe, etc, etc. My white friends call me ***** or ******. I call them the same thing. Negro is used also. I call them redneck, pale face. But we all laugh it off because I love them and they love me still. Its not the same conotation as in 1950. This is Y2K and if you are in the world I live around(Hip-Hop, rap, merengue, salsa) you use that word and THEM SOME. Its because its understood that if we know you, we know that you are not offending us by those words. Do whites get offended when they are with their black friends and the black guy says to the white guy "motherfu**er, you gotta be kidding"? Or "F**k you! I am not going out with Shirley! She's butt naked ooogly!" Nope. Its a funny thing. There is no way that the white guy would think that the black guy is actually having sex with his mom or that the black guy is telling the guy off. They are friends. They have an "understanding" that only comes by knowing each other. But, say it any of that and I don't know you, I puncha you face to a bloody pulp. Then, I straighten out my tie and catch my train. ------------------ I Want To Thank God For Making Me A Rocketfan [This message has been edited by Almu (edited August 18, 2000).]
Sorry, I got in to this thread late, and I know this is off topic, but..... YES THERE IS!!! Please tell me that you do not call your child stupid. Pertpetual use of words like "stupid" in reference to your child can cause psychological and emotional damage. To me, it is tanamount to child abuse. Children need positive re-enforcement. Call a child "stupid" enough times and they will begin to think they are stupid. Sorry, I don't mean to derail this thread, but that quote struck a nerve with me. ------------------ Save our children from the TAAS test: TAAS test report card TAAS test fact sheet [This message has been edited by Behad (edited August 18, 2000).]
Behad's right. Calling your kid stupid is foolish. ------------------ I've posted so much that what I say must be true. The latest on Maurice Taylor
Alrighty, Irregardless is not gramatically correct. It is, however, a word. It was put in Webster's a few years ago because it was so widely used. But then again, so was "duh", so make your own judgement. As far as the "N" word, I'm white, so I don't use it. I don't know if this will offend anyone, but I use the word "mavro" if I'm talking badly about someone black, such as if they cut me off on the highway, etc. It's the greek word for "N". I do love calling white football players "crackers". Like "look at that little cracker go!" I just think it's funny ------------------ How about the Houston Comets and their quest to become "Quadrepeatchicks!"
i dont understand the big deal with it... i think that it is a contradiction for some to be allowed and others to not.. any argument of why makes no sense... i like tu pac though.. really the whole racism thing has gotten out of hand and people cant even say anything without it being misinterpreted as being racist..i think the race card is one of the weakest arguments.. i used to know a guy that was pretty lame and he happened to be a black guy..the fact that he was black had nothing to do with the fact that he was lame...anyway i told him one time that i 'didnt want to hang with him..that i thought he sucked' something like that anyway so he says 'ohh you dont like me because I am black' umm no i dont like you because you suck...anyway that kind of bullsh*t really gets to me... as a side note my mother is english and there is a color that they as english people refer to as '****** brown' as in 'ohh what a nice ****** brown shirt you have there' it always takes me back when she says it...i dont know how accepted it is nowadays in england but anyway ive told her not to call it that... ------------------ i am rather like a mosquito in a nudist camp..i know what i ought to do but i don't know where to begin...
