....the more it stays the same. No matter how different this BBS is or how big it has become, I can count on the same type of reactions to Rudy's decisions. You people crack me up. Back in the early cays of CC I would have read all of this and tried my best to convince you how you will be wrong in the end. But now I'm used to it. Every single year it's the same thing. Rudy makes a decision, BBSers freak out and turn on the coach and team. I guess it's because all of you are experts and Rudy is an idiot. Something that most people tend to forget is that the staff has spent months of researching this draft. They (more than any of you) know what this team needs. They know the directioin that we are trying to go. They know what deals they want to try and make down the road. Look, we still have 4 months before the season even starts. Why act like we are done for the year? Do you guys have some sort of Popeye-esque insight as to what is going on internally with every team? I doubt it. In fact I doubt that the sailor man himself is privy to what's really going on behind the doors, even though he is usually more correct than any or most of you. It's cool and all to argue over picks. It's even cool to disagree. But it gets old reading everyone's knee-jerk reactions to every major decision that Rudy makes. When will you guys learn? What does Rudy have to do to prove to you guys that he does not deserve all this bashing he gets every single time he makes a decision?! Last year was the worst. The first few months of the season was unbearable in this BBS. A large majority of you questioned, criticized, and bashed Rudy to the point that it really became ridiculous. Then what happened? He proved every single one of you wrong. Again. Argue all you want about the pick and the trade, but hold your judgements until it's all over. And it's far from over. Rudy is not through. If you haven't already, read Sherlock's post. There's an intelligent and fair view of yesterdays draft. A lot of us realize that the season is still far away and that there will be more deals on the horizon. As for the rest of you, there's still some room on that Clipper bandwagon. ------------------ RocketFuel is taking the summer off!
Agreed, you are right Space, but that is the purpose of BBS. To have an opinion. To wonder about moves, and then be proven wrong. Thats part of Rudy's magic, and the fun of BBS. I am one who is questioning this draft, but I do know Rudy's calculations are usually dead on. He has been wrong on a few picks, but for the most part, he is pretty darn good. ------------------ A Chuck paraphrase: It was surreal! And I don't even know what that means! Charles after Eddie hit THE SHOT
Space -- you know I love ya, but man I hate posts that lump "everyone on this BBS"' thoughts together. I don't see a stereotype here just because many don't like this pick. I think some have gone overboard on the pick already, and I know enough about how good the Rockets are at making picks to know to let this play out before completely blasting it, but come on: Expectations were high here going in to this draft. This wasn't a pick in the 20's that you try to make something out of nothing. We were all hoping for the SF/PF that could potentially become our starter for years to come. So were the Rockets obviously, but he wasn't available in their opinion so they did what they could. I hope Rudy T does it again and Collier turns out to be a stud, but the upside doesn't appear too high and even they appear to admit he's a role player. I "hope" the first rounder we get next year works out -- that to me is a reason for optimism, but the fan in me was hoping for more now. But as for Rudy -- all you can say is Rashard Lewis. Hey I'll take Rudy's direction 99.99% of the time, but there is no other way to spin it. They screwed up. Fans can be right. Rudy T can be wrong. Maybe I don't win any supporters in the office by criticizing some times or bringing that to light, but I'm just a fan and I believe fans have the right to criticize. It also completely validates the times you praise them because you know you're not having smoke blown up your ass. ------------------ NOTHING BUT .NET CLUTCHCITY.NET
Space, People are entitled to their opinions and input, be they informed calculated comments or knee-jerk reactions. Take out all knee-jerk reaction from this bbs and traffic will drop significantly. Clutch is right - Rudy has proved us wrong before but he also has made mistakes. Nobody is doubting that the Rockets staff know their business and certainly a hell of a lot more than anyone on this BBS, but that doesn't mean people can't state their opinions. We are right to question the Rocket's every move. Blindly placing faith in them is verging on ignorance. You said. Argue all you want about the pick and the trade, but hold your judgements until it's all over. And it's far from over. Rudy is not through. Ok, everyone. No further comments until it becomes completely clear whether this was a succesful draft or not Last year was the worst. The first few months of the season was unbearable in this BBS. A large majority of you questioned, criticized, and bashed Rudy to the point that it really became ridiculous. Then what happened? He proved every single one of you wrong. Again. Is that so? I made comment on several of Rudy's coaching techniques early in the season, criticizing some and questioning others. Sure, the Rockets went on to perform a lot better but I stand by my comments - I don't believe Rudy proved me wrong and as such take exception to your comment above. ...But it gets old reading everyone's knee-jerk reactions to every major decision that Rudy makes. Agreed. Easy solution - don't read 'em. No offence Space, just appreciate the nature of the forum. ------------------ http://rocketdavo.tripod.com
SPACECITY: Oh? If you recall, the majority of the fans at that time were screaming for a high voltage offense that featured Steve, Shandon, and Cuttino. Rudy stubbornly insisted upon dumping the rock down to Charles and Dream. Result: they weren't very good. Charles and Dream then go down, and Rudy is forced to hand the team over to his rookie and 2nd year sidekick. The team gradually improves to the point of defeating many top tier squads. How did he prove the fans wrong? However, I see you're basic point. We should have more patience. History will tell us that over the last few years, the Rockets have made their blockbuster moves during the later part of the offseason, around August. They have been very pro-active during the Rudy/CD/Les era. We should have faith...the man did bring us Steve Francis. PS: that Clipper thread I started was intended to commend some good moves by the Clippers, not to state my newfound alliance with the Los Angelos Clippers. ------------------ "I wanna eat his children." [This message has been edited by thacabbage (edited June 29, 2000).]
Ok, calm down. Let me say that my intention wasn't to ask all of you to stop voicing your opinions. I don't recall having said it quite like that. I should have maybe said "...hold your judgement about the coaching staffs ability to make decent decision about the future of the team...." Hey, I'm fine with "That pick sucked, what was he thinking?" but is it really necessary for the Fire Rudy posters to return? Sorry Clutch, I see what you're saying. I'll not make generalized statements without thinking. Trust me, stereotyping was the last thing on my mind. But as far as Rashard goes, that wasn't a blown oppoprtunity at the time. Only in hindsite can you regret that pick. We were looking for someone to be more of an impact at that time, not 2 years down the road. Who know we'd end up with a fastbreak team that featured the most quick and lethal guard duo in the league? Cabbage, I was thinking of the people that said Rudy wasn't a good coach because he wasn't capable of changing the system. There were many that thought he was one-dimensional and he was basically riding Hakeems coattails. As far as what he did at the beginning of the season made sense. He wasn't expecting to have to rebuild last year. He was gonna go with Hakeem/Barkley/Pippen one more time. It just wasn't meant to be. Oh well, I'm just glad the draft is over. Now we can look forward to the real fun. The annual summer trading frenzy is always my favorite time. August should be interesting. ------------------ RocketFuel is taking the summer off!
cabbage head, I don't believe you Rumor has it, you and smeg are starting up a clipper site You bandwagon jumpers you ------------------
The return of the Fire Rudy posters never surprises me. They'll always be lurking. The appearance of the Rockets as the Aryan Nation posters really surprised me. I hope those people never return. ------------------ [This message has been edited by grummett (edited June 29, 2000).]
Clutch...More magical words could not of been spoken on behalf of us Rudy "bashers". Rashard Lewis is as far as you had to go. Space spin it around and make it an argument for those who are complaining. "Every year it seems Rudy Apologists sit back idly and love every bad decision he's made" I have always been hard on Rudy. People love to say that Phil Jackson is weak for taking talented teams to the finals. Rudy has had as much if not more talent than Phil. When Barkley first came here, and When Pippen was signed. As for last nights draft. Ill call a dead fish a dead fish. We (key word here) could of come out of the draft with a player to help build a team around its nucleus of Francis, Cuttino, and Anderson. Instead we come away with a role player at best, a draft pick in the late first round, and no needs filled. Sorry, I have watched Collier. Hes not a rebounding stud, hes not a defensive monster, and hes not all that great a runner. Better than Pryz. maybe so, but worth inserting over Cato or Thomas, hardly. Najera was an alright pick up, he could of done some things. Maybe. But Langhi??? BTW: I wasnt proved wrong about Rudy's coaching ability. Like others said, Rudy had been saying for 3 years he was going to implement a new slashing attacking style of game plan. He started out each season in the old Dump it In. Only out of sheer necessity did things change. Thats not proving anything, except his own wrong in not doing what he initially said. And the success he had with it should make me angrier that he didnt initially go to the fast pace style.
This post is probably mostly directed as me. I can take the heat so just BRING IT! Whatever happened to drafting the best player available if the one you wanted is taken by another team? That is my problem with this draft. This is the highest pick we've had in years and we decided to spend it on named Collier? I trust Rudy to no end. But the man is human. And humans make mistakes. In my most humblest of opinions, he made a mistake this year. Just make it up by getting some quality free-agents this year and pick a better player with next years lotto pick. ------------------ I Want To Thank God For Making Me A Rocketfan
I am definitely one to have patience and see how things pan out, and basically hope will pull off and great trade and Collier and Langhi will become decent players. But if they don't work out we should get rid of ruddy rudy quick smart. As the original Cuttino Apologist, clutchcity BBS has the amazing ability to turn on players, call for their blood and then in a short space of time back flip and love them again (CUT Tino). Actually Bob, it's Cab, Me and Achebe starting http://www.ClipperCity.net ------------------ Mango is the Smeg of Bizarro World
Anybody care to explain how it's somehow the Rockets' fault for not taking Rashard Lewis in the middle of the first round when he wasn't selected until #32? I guess if the Rockets don't strike gold with every pick, it's somehow a bad draft. I guess it doesn't matter that Michael Dickerson's a better player than Lewis either. Are the Rockets idiots for not taking every player that turns out to be a late-round surprise, or just Lewis? ------------------ Too-Rye-Aye!
true rudy knows what he is doing. i think he is better with late round picks t hough than early ones which he used on the likes of misrad turkan and bryce drew. if rudy thinks this was right for the team thats good but wasnt' collier expected to even fall to the rockets 2nd round pick? ------------------ Shane "Save Our Rockets" "Life without basketball in Houston........without an arena that is what it will be"
whoa, there actually is a ClippersCity.net Did you really start that Smeg? ------------------ The more lefties on your team, the better. Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong? Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.
Dickerson is also a better player than Darius Miles is. Wanna tell me youd draft Dickerson over Miles today? IT isnt one pick only either. Since the Horry Cassell years, Rudy has done far more harm in his drafting than help. Yes Dickerson and Othella were solid pickups. And Cutino was a steal in the second round. But the likes of Drew, Turkan, Rhoderick Rhodes, Zan Tabak, Serge Zwikkers, Now the Colliers, and Lanhis arent improving things. Lets just be able to say, Rudy made a bad call on this one. He could of had a player that would of been able to contribute something for years, and in the second round he could of landed some serious players too. Instead, he got everything he didnt need. Why is there such a freaking problem with some to say Yeah Rudy really stinks on this one.
TheFreak -- please tell me you're not trying to pass those lines off as some intelligent slam. The answer to your question is just Lewis. Not being sarcastic here, but did you follow the Rockets draft in 1998? It honestly doesn't look like it. "late-round surprise"? "Not the Rockets fault"? The entire story of that draft was the Rockets passing on Rashard Lewis. Fans on this BBS were in an uproar over not taking him and the Rockets answered questions all night about passing on him ("He was 4th on our list" -- remember?). I can't believe how quickly we forget. If you missed it, go back and read the site's <a href="http://www.clutchcity.net/feature.cfm?FeatureID=60">1998 Draft recap</a>. Seriously, the entire story is representative of the fans' thinking at the time: Confusion and regret over passing on Lewis. If you want to mock the fans for the times Rudy went against the grain and was right (and believe me: I know he's proven me wrong on several occasions) then the least you could do is acknowledge the one time the fans were right. ------------------ NOTHING BUT .NET CLUTCHCITY.NET
Dreamshake -- tell me how a kid out of high school was going to help us make it back to the Finals in the 1-2 year window we had. Also, take the number of years the Rockets have had a draft pick since Rudy took over, and the number of quality players they came away with. Then take the average number the Rockets have picked at. Then compare that to every team in the league. Then let us know how the Rockets stack up in the drafting department. Clutch -- Anybody that goes in the 2nd round and then becomes a hot commodity, I would classify as a late-round surprise. I think the only reason people blame the Rockets is because the kid was from Houston. You can't tell me that makes sense. People in Sacramento aren't ripping their organization daily for passing up this kid who went to school in Houston. If the fans wanted the local kid, and the Rockets decided to pass, well then I guess the fans ended up correct on that one. But no analysis went into the fans' decision. Because he was from Houston, they knew who he was and wanted him on the Rockets. That's not a good reason to select a player. Why not blame them for passing on Al Harrington as well? He's better than Turckan, right? But he's not from Houston. The point is, why is it just the Rockets' fault that they didn't take the kid in the middle of the first round, when he ends up going #32? Every other team in the league had the same chance, and made the same decision as the Rockets. It's not like the fans had some great insight into this kid, or scouted him more than the Rockets (or any other team), and just knew he would be a stud. No, he was entering the draft straight out of high school, and he was from Houston. That was the sole basis for the fans wanting Lewis. Do you really think the fans knew something the Rockets didn't? I'd love to have the kid on the team right now, but I don't blame the Rockets for passing on him when every other team did the same thing. It's not like we picked Turckan at #17 and Lewis went 18th. That doesn't even begin to address the issue that a kid out of high school isn't a real pressing need for a team trying to contend for a championship. Just my humble opinion, of course. ------------------ Too-Rye-Aye!
NIKEstrad, Clippercity.net is a company in MA (New England area). Clippercity.com is in Maryland. Clippercity.org is available if Smeg and his group still wants it. Mango ------------------ Eat more spinach! Live long and prosper! Donate blood! Smeg will be assimilated. Now...back to updating The Serious Police Files.
Thanks. That was my point after all in this discussion. And you can speak for every fan on that one? Hey, I know no fan studied Lewis as much as the Rockets probably did, but saying no analysis went into their decision is a bit much. To me, the fact that he was from Houston was a bonus. More than anything, with all the talk of us taking him leading up to the draft, everything suggested this kid could become a very good player down the road. He was extremely young, tall, athletic and had very good skills. That is what I wanted. At the time, our team was very old, and at times, very boring. You don't see me screaming for the Rockets to take Alton Ford, Gee Gervin or Moses Malone, Jr., do you? But yet Mirsad Turkcan was. We had three first round picks, not one. It's not like we really could have expected all three to make an immediate impact. Somehow the Pacers drafted high schooler Jonathan Bender, who didn't play at all, and yet Indiana still went to the NBA Finals. How good would a Kevin Willis for Rashard Lewis and Bryce Drew trade look right now? In essense, what you're saying Freak is anything the fans say must be discounted because there is no analysis behind anything they say. The Rockets study much more so they can't be wrong compared to the fans because the fans put no analysis into their decision: They strictly like hometown guys or guys they saw do a dunk once on TV. So even when the Rockets are wrong, they're not wrong because they analyzed it more than anyone else. I would agree with you on a lot of fans -- but all fans? No way. The bottom line is win now or later, a corpse would have been more productive than Mirsad Turkcan, who by the way plays the same position as Rashard. "The Rockets have a history of finding talent in the Draft (you need look no further than Mobley, a second-round steal at No. 41 in 1998), so you have to put at least a little trust in their judgment. But this is also the team that ignored Rashard Lewis, who grew up right under their noses at Elsik High School, to take Bryce Drew and Mirsad Turkcan in '98. And you'd better believe they would kill to have Lewis right now because he's going to be better than anyone the Rockets have on their roster, save Steve Francis." -- Michael Murphy Couldn't have said it any better. I like our track record, and it's not like I am haunted or bringing it up every day by passing up Rashard Lewis: But after drafting Collier and Langhi, to say Rudy T and company always prove us wrong, that no longer applies. Rockets have one shot at redemption: Sign him this offseason. Then they look like geniuses. Get him for nothing just when they've become a young, up-and-coming team and a future first rounder to boot by trading Turkcan. ------------------ NOTHING BUT .NET CLUTCHCITY.NET
