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The Lakers Chose Kobe Over Shaq

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by SacTown, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. roslolian

    roslolian Rockets Only Fan

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    The problem here is respect. Kobe is all about business, you do your job I'll do mine. Shaq is a lot like Lebron, the stuff off the court is more important than the stuff in the court. They wouldn't last because Kobe couldn't stand having a bum on the team, esp. when they lose games in the regular season because of it.

    This wasn't a big deal during the 3 peat because Shaq was MDE, but as age started catching up to Shaq his regular season performance became worse and worse. The Lakers trading him when they did was the right move, turns out he only had like 1 good year left and became a role player.
     
  2. SacTown

    SacTown Member

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    I don't think so. They may have won 1 more as Shaq went to Miami and won 1 but he was already declining. After that he went to the Suns and was awful. Shaq didn't take good care of his body, his conditioning wasn't great and he declined FAST. I think the Lakers made out like bandits by getting rid of Shaq when they did and they got some pretty good value in return.
     
  3. SacTown

    SacTown Member

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    Kobe was pissed off that Shaq came into camp so out of shape. Jordan would have been the same way.
     
  4. arjun

    arjun Member

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    :confused::confused:
    Dude, Shaq was not awful with the Suns by any means..?

    He had a resurgence that year, and showed up in great shape.
    2008 - 2009
    Games Played : 75
    Games Started : 75
    17.9 PPG
    8.4 RPG
    1.4 BPG
    61% FG

    That's damn good -- not to mention his almost 50 point beating on Chris Bosh...
     
  5. GreatOne1978

    GreatOne1978 Member

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    Phoenix has the best medical staff they use unorthodox methods to treat their players. This is why Nash and Hill wont leave because if they want to keep playing basketball they can just stay there (Win or Lose) if they go somewhere else their body wont hold up
     
  6. Doc_Brown

    Doc_Brown Member

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    I have to disagree with you on this. It’s been my opinion for years now that Kobe would rather take 25 shots and lose than take 15 and win.
    He only cares about winning as long as he is the one thought to be responsible for it.
    When the Lakers traded Shaq for 28 million dollars’ worth of players they went from a finals team to out of the playoffs instantaneously and Kobe preferred that to the way it had been because he wanted so badly to be the man.
    They only now have returned to prominence after fleecing the Grizzlies for Gasol and managing to effectively replace Shaq’s contribution to the team with two guys, Gasol and Bynum. Kobe tolerates this because nobody believes that Gasol or Bynum are better than he is which is not the way it was with Shaq.
    I think that if the Lakers had traded Kobe instead of Shaq Phil Jackson might not have left. They could have won a couple of championships before he retired and could now be well on the way to rebuilding their franchise instead of stagnating while an aging Kobe guns for the record books as Mike Brown looks on.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member
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    Being all about business has nothing to do with not wanting to be remembered as Penny Hardaway, and wanting to answer the challenge of leading a team to a title. These are the words from his statement, not mine. That's 100% ego. Granted, he backed it up later.
     
  8. Sleepy Flloyd

    Sleepy Flloyd Member

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    Best post ever +1!
     
  9. arjun

    arjun Member

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    I agree Phoenix has a good medical staff...but I think you are overrating them a bit...There is only SO much they can know that others cannot
     
  10. goodbug

    goodbug Contributing Member

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    Lakers would lose Kobe for nothing since he's a FA in 2004 offseason. And Lakers were left with Shaq's 30M/y contract, the like of Payton, George, Medvedenko, Cook, Walton, no cap and they'd win a couple of rings before Shaq retired? Not to mention Shaq took 20 games off in regular season, it will take a miracle for them to make playoff.

    Hey, Shaq actually lowered his contract to 20M/y, teamed with first tier talent Wade, great supporting roles like Haslem, Mouring, still got Payton there, plus a HOF coach Riley, highly motivated to get in shape. And he only managed to win 1 ring as the 2nd fiddle with Wade getting all the phantom fouls. What's left in the post 2004 Lakers squad that made it better than Heat had post 2004?

    This is like saying George + Medvedenko+Cook+Walton > Wade + Haslem + Mourning + Walker, or the former squad can be trade for pieces better than the latter squad.

    Dumbest post ever.




     
    #70 goodbug, Feb 8, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2012
  11. gmoney411

    gmoney411 Member

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    I noticed you left out Clyde who was the best of those three. Minus even putting in Clyde's career averages most of this seasons were around the stat lines you posted for Penny and Kobe. Those guys were great players when they went to the finals with Shaq.

     
  12. Doc_Brown

    Doc_Brown Member

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    So you're saying that Kobe held his free agency over the Lakers as a means of getting Shaq out of town? If they didn't trade him then he would have left?

    My point was that Kobe only cares about feeding his MJ complex not winning championships. It would have been in his best interest to stay with the Lakers if they didn't trade Shaq if he wanted to win championships.

    That he would have skipped town on the Lakers because they kept a hall of fame center, seems to me, supports my argument. That being Kobe would rather be the man than win.

    Do you remember where Kobe would have gone?
    What do you think he would have accomplished there? I don't think he would have liked it much if they had a player that was better than him.

    If the Lakers really could get nothing for Kobe, they probably could have done worse than trading Shaq.

    That said things weren't too hot in LA until the Gasol trade. If these hypothetical post 2004 Shaq Lakers had been gifted something similar like, I don't know, Smush Parker for Manu Ginoblili it might have turned out ok for them too.
     
  13. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    gmoney411,

    Can you name any HOF guards in the modern era (besides a controversial Dumars) whose prime averages were around 21 ppg, 5 rpg, and 6 apg? I can name a bunch of players who had those averages and arent in the HOF.
     
  14. gmoney411

    gmoney411 Member

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    I already named Clyde Drexler. Go look at this stats and most of his years were around those numbers. He had two good years where he averaged 27 but a majority of his career those were his numbers and not only was he a hall of famer he was on the top 50 all time list.
     
  15. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    You claimed that Hardaway's 95 season where he averaged 21ppg/4rpg/7apg were HOF numbers.

    If that's true, you should easily be able to find HOF players whose best seasons were around 21/5/6.

    Yet the best you can come up with is Clyde Drexler whose best seasons were 27/7/6....much better than 21/5/6.
     
  16. gmoney411

    gmoney411 Member

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    That makes absolutely no sense. A player doesn't get into the hall of fame by having one or two great seasons. Clyde got in based on his career and for most of his career his numbers were comparable to 21/4/7. As a matter of fact when we won the title with Drexler his stat line was 21/7/4. Are you going to argue that Clyde wasn't a hall of fame caliber player that year?
     
  17. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    It does make sense. You just don't understand it. If you're saying that 21ppg/5rpg/6apg are HOF numbers, then you should be able to find a HOF player whose best years consisted of averages around 21/5/6.

    People get inducted into the HOF based on their primes (how long it lasted, statistics, what they accomplished). In the HOF induction process, do you really think the voters think to themselves, "well gee, when Clyde was a rookie, he came off the bench and averaged 8 ppg."

    And Drexler's prime numbers were much better than 21/4/7.

    Correct. When Drexler was with us, he wasn't a HOF caliber player.
     
  18. gmoney411

    gmoney411 Member

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    Scottie Pippen 22/8/5 and that's just one I knew for sure. If I searched for more I'm sure I could find them.


    That is a ridiculous comparison. You choose to completely ignore Penny's finals stats that year but they were hall of fame caliber. When you are second fiddle and a pg like Penny was back then your stats aren't going to be great. You have to factor in that those guys put up those numbers while not being the primary scorer.

    So his prime only lasted for two years? Clyde was a hall of fame player for two years and then that's it? You do realize those are the only two years were Clyde took more than 20 shots per year right? Him deciding to take more shots makes him a hall of famer?

    I'm not even sure what to say about this. Clyde was still in his prime when we got him. You are confusing taking more shots with greatness.
     
  19. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Yup, Pippen is one. Good luck finding more. Pippen was the one of (if not the) best defensive SF of all time.

    In any case, there are still tons of players who averaged comparable numbers who never made it to the HOF.


    Yes, I'm going to ignore Penny's finals' stats for two reasons.

    1. They're irrelevant. We were talking about about the teams Shaq led to the finals, not how they performed in the finals.

    2. A 77 game regular season is a better sample than a 4 game playoff series.


    I listed Drexler's best statistical seasons. During his prime, he had several seasons that were much better than Anfernee Hardaway's 94-95 season.

    Well, it sounds like you should admit that you don't know what "prime" is. Drexler was past his prime when he joined us. Think about it. That was 3 years before he retired.

    Out of curiosity, do you think Kobe is still in his prime?
     
  20. gmoney411

    gmoney411 Member

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    Dennis Johnson - 19/5/4
    James Worthy - 22/3/5

    Add that in with Dumars and Pippen and I've got 4 so far.



    The fact that he had really good numbers during the season and even better during the finals is evidence of how good he was that year.




    Drexler was the primary scoring option on his teams and Penny was not. Anybody that watched Penny knew that we got cheated out of watching a great player due to injuries.



    Clyde had been coming off of two seasons where he wasn't healthy before he came to us. For that year he was with us he had his best shooting season ever shooting 50%/36%. After that year he had more injuries and then he retired. Clyde was only in his 12th yr and was 32 when he came to the Rockets and it was the last time he played for a majority of the season.

    Kobe however is no longer still in his prime because this is his 16th season. At the age of 33 he has more wear and tear on him than most players get in an entire career. And even despite all the games Kobe is still playing at a hall of fame level just like Drexler was when we got him
     

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