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The incredible transformation of Justin Brooks Verlander

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Yordan The Great, Jul 9, 2022.

  1. Yordan The Great

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    Ever since he's been an Astro, and maybe because of Strom's direct input, Verlander decided at that very point in his career to become a much more aggressive pitcher attacking the strike zone, home runs be damned.

    With Detroit:
    1 out of every 10.5 hits were Home runs

    With Houston:
    1 out of every 4.7 hits are Home runs

    At face value, this seems to spell absolute disaster for a pitcher on the wrong side of 34 yrs old.

    But with this new found aggression comes the following:

    With Detroit:
    2.8 BB / 9 IP
    8.5 K / 9 IP
    3.0 K/BB Ratio
    1.07 K/H Ratio

    With Houston:
    1.6 BB / 9 IP
    11.5 K / 9 IP
    7.1 K/BB Ratio
    1.92 K/H Ratio

    Those 2 ratios are unfathomable improvements for even a pitcher that's peaking in the prime of his career, much less for one that was appearing to be on his way out of the game sooner rather than later at the age of 34.
     
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  2. Tuckmose

    Tuckmose Member

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    The sticky stuff was why he reached 300Ks at nearly 12 k/9 back in 2019.

    What’s crazy is how it didn’t effect him at all, he’s putting up the same numbers as he did in his Cy Young-MVP-Triple Crown season in 2011.
     
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  3. Tomstro

    Tomstro Member

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    great post! Fascinating but also makes sense. Hope he doesn’t run out of gas before or during the playoffs.
     
  4. sealclubber1016

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    He openly stated that we had high speed video that was able to help him alter his form to create better results. We also heavily preach the high 4 seamer.

    Better form on pitches, better pitch selection, better results.
     
  5. dc rock

    dc rock Contributing Member

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    Where does Verlander rank in the history of MLB pitchers? He’s better than Dazzy Vance and Dizzy Dean in my book. Would you put him on the same level as Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez, and Randy Johnson?
     
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  6. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D
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    Far and away better than former Astro Pedro Martinez
    Screenshot_20220710-093108_Google.jpg
     
  7. msn

    msn Member

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    Not on the level of those guys you mention, but maybe just below--and that due to the longevity, how he's reinvented himself as a pitcher and returned not just to serviceable ML pitcher but Cy Young level dominance. Smoltz did that back in the 90s and 00s (as a starter, not just with the closer thing). That takes JV up a notch in my book. The dude should already be working on his induction speech; he's an absolute lock.
     
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  8. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member

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    I really thought he was almost done, with his best days behind him...esp. after this last injury. But, this...tbh, reminds me of Roger's resurgence here.
     
  9. sealclubber1016

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    One thing to be moderately concerned about in regards to Verlander, his 4 seamer has the lowest spin rate since he's been here. Because of that it's dropping a tad more than previous seasons and the swing and miss rate is way down.

    Fortunately the extra contact seems to be generating a ton of extra pop ups this season instead of misses. Not sure if it's sticky stuff, or TJ recovery, or simply age related, but if the 4 seam spin rate drops a little more it could be a killer next season. The difference between a pop up and crushed ball isn't much.
     
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  10. rpr52121

    rpr52121 Sober Fan
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    I'm not sure he is as much as a lock as you say, especially with how the HoF voting process works.

    He should get in within the 10 year window with the 2 Cy Young's, MVP, Triple Crown, and longevity; but honestly it is hard to predict how that will play out.
     
  11. Htown Stros

    Htown Stros Member

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    What?
     
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  12. panamamyers

    panamamyers Member

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    Verlander, Kershaw, Greinke and Scherzer are all stone cold locks to get into the Hall.
    Maybe prior to coming to Houston Verlander might have taken a while to get in if he retired then.....he is as much of a lock as anyone playing today at this point.
     
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  13. sealclubber1016

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    He's an absolute first ballot lock, even if he retired today.
     
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  14. rpr52121

    rpr52121 Sober Fan
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    I don't think Greinke get's in.
     
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  15. rpr52121

    rpr52121 Sober Fan
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    To me lock means by his 2nd/3rd year on the ballot. I just don't think that is as certain as you make it out to be.
     
  16. Yordan The Great

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    That's absurd.

    He was an absolute lock before coming back this season.

    This obviously just adds to his legacy, ala the way Clemens had his late career resurgence.
     
  17. Yordan The Great

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    Now there is a discussion to be had.

    I hope he gets in, I really like and respect Greinke.

    Had we just closed the door on Washington in game 7 after the playoff performance of Zach's career.
     
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  18. Yordan The Great

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    I don't know, barely 180 wins, no WS title, an era near 3.50. He wasn't getting in if his career whimpered out in that fashion.

    What I want to see is Verlander making a commitment to get to 300 wins. He'll have averaged 20 wins a season (3 years) as of the end of August counting the 5 wins in Sept of 2017. He's on pace to finish at 248 after this season. That's just about 17 wins a year for 3 years to get there. Sign a 3 year deal to finish up his career with the Astros and get there. We all thought 300 was never going to be done again by anyone, but he's got a chance if he wants it.
     
    #18 Yordan The Great, Jul 10, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2022
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  19. rpr52121

    rpr52121 Sober Fan
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    It's just my opinion. Honestly, this is more my view of the craziness of HoF voters and the process. Like I could foresee a situation where JV retires the same year as Kershaw, Scherzer, and some position players that definitely should get in, and they eat at each others votes.

    I just think the Astros connection hurts JV, and perception is king with HoF voting. Just look at how Schilling didn't get in. The whole 5 votes only and the fact that so many voters like that on average only 2 guys get in every year. The stretch from 2015-2019 with four years of 3/4 guys getting in seems more of aberration. Plus there is no way to know how the new batch of voters coming into the system will decide things.
     
  20. rpr52121

    rpr52121 Sober Fan
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    I honestly think CC Sabathia's upcoming eligibility will be very prescient to how Grienke will be viewed. ZG is better than CC, but if CC falls below the 10% cut off in the first few years then it forebodes a tough climb for Greinke. ZG biggest issue is lack of national stage/visibility for how good he is.
     
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