If the Astros make the playoffs, I'd love nothing more than for this thread to be bumped to the top of this forum and to look like a fool. But at this point, I'm in the selling camp. It's a sellers market this year, and we have many tradeable assets to contenders... Lidge, Wheeler, Huff, Wilson, Taveras, perhaps even Pettitte, etc. One player, even if it's Tejada, I'm afraid isn't going to make much of a difference. The last four games... we've lost three of them, scoring 4 runs, 7 runs and 6 runs. Luke Scott has become an impact hitter. Adam Everett isn't an automatic out. Willy, for once, is getting on base and causing the havoc we thought he would in April. We're still not winning ballgames. Why? 3/5 of our starting rotation (Buchholz/whoever replaces him, Pettitte, Backe) is either mediocrity at best or complete garbage, depending on if your glass is half-empty or half-full. There isn't a single reliable stopper in the bullpen. Qualls has strong stretches, but also has stretches where he looks absolutely clueless. Lidge has been a disaster. Wheeler has been solid, but certainly not great. This team doesn't simply need more offense. It also needs another reliable starter and something remotely resembling a stopper in the bullpen. It's too much to ask at the deadline. And, even if this team gets hot and works its way back into the race, it'll only be because of the mediocrity of the NL Wild Card race... not the strength of the club. There are too many gaping holes, even in the weak NL, to compete against the Mets and Cardinals in the postseason. This game today was indicative of why this team doesn't need a major trade. We did everything we always complain about... hit fairly well with RISP, got production from the bottom of the order, executed small ball, got leadoff runners on, got a great starting pitching performance, scored 6 runs... and still lost. The holes are too much to fill. And I know some of you might point to 2004 and how we only had two reliable starters when we made the 36-10 run. But in addition to getting the impact hitter (Beltran), we also had the 25 HR bats of Bagwell and Kent in the lineup. We also had the lights out stopper in the bullpen to finish those 2-0 and 3-1 Oswalt and Clemens games. We don't anymore. This team needs multiple changes, and it needs an offseason to fill them, not one day at the trading deadline. Don't sell any more quality prospects. Let's let a few of them play, evaluate them, hit the FA market hard with our financial flexibility and prepare ourselves for a legit run next season. I don't see it happening this year. I hope I'm wrong, but that's how I see it. Anyone else out there agree?
When teams "sell" they trade guys that are high dollar and/or free agents in the winter. Willy T doesn't come close to either of those two. Wheeler is our future closer and again, he is not a free agent at the end of the season. Why give him up for a prospect that, if you are lucky, will one day be as good as Wheeler himself? I don't think you can trade Pettitte. He came back to his hometown and took less money. It would not reflect well on the team.
The only guy that this team can actually "sell" is Pettite (as mentioned above). Huff doesn't make enough to where he'll go unclaimed on waivers... and the rest of the quality guys (mainly Oswalt) are going to be locked up. We're not the Pirates... and we have had years like this before without having to just sell off pieces (even though some of us can't remember back to 02 or 03... those were pretty mediocre/underacheiving astros teams as well). And with Patton at AA, Hirsh ready to be here next year, Pence having a shot at making the team, and tons of money available to upgrade certain position players... this team isn't in as dire straits (for the future).
We're 6 games out of the playoff chase and the teams ahead of us are mediocre. There are 2 months left in the season and this is probably Pettitte and Clemen's last seasons. Becoming a seller would be very shortsighted. The Astros need to be buyers. The playoffs are very reachable for us.
"I want to run home to my mommy" is more like it. Selling isn't going to get us much of anything, except for our prospects... *cries*
WE are mediocre... and underacheiving... and we've now underachieved longer than any of the past underacheiving Astros teams since 2000 (01, 02, 03, 04, and 05 all featured teams that got much better much faster in the second half). I'd be thrilled if we could back our way into a playoff spot because the NL is just so damn pathetic... and I already said we don't have anything to sell anyways. But, if the players on this team don't start doing the jobs they've been paid to do consistently... they're going to have to find others who can do just that in the off-season.
Without ever becoming a braves-like fan, not even buying unsold tickets to playoff games...who cares if we make the playoffs? The point still stands...there is no way in hell this team wins the WS. The goal should be getting better for the future. A Tejada trade still accomplishes that, though, because the team needs at least 1 other dependable, everyday type bat to go with Lance.
it's long past time to throw the word "underachieving" way out the window when used to describe this team. we are just plain bad. underachieving is a compliment. just got back from the game, and it was entertainingly sickening. dont want to use the train wreck cliche, but never was it more appropriate. i dont know if any of you are listening to the radio show right now, but they are interviewing ausmus, and my god what balls he has. calling out lidge saying he has to get back to his normal self, saying you cant get to the playoffs without a good closer, that they arent a good team right now....guess what you ****ing scrub? YOU ARE THE MAIN CAUSE. YOU ARE THE WORST MOST WORTHLESS PLAYER ON THE TEAM. WE ARE WORSE WITH YOU ON THE TEAM. QUIT CALLING OUT OTHER PEOPLE. you have no damn right to answer any questions other than why do you still play in the major leagues, or "how does it feel to have your manager have you bunt with with the bases loaded because he knows you cant do anything besides ground into a dp?" he makes me so heated it's ridiculous.
With Berkman hurt and Ensberg uncertain, with the starters and relievers looking T-Ballesque and August looming ever so loomish, I agree that we should not be 'buyers' at the prices apparently being demanded. At least Tejada has three years to go, even if he can demand a trade, so he might fall in the 'ok' column - as a shortstop. As a 3Ber he'll b**** and moan and demand outtahere. As for selling, if Lidge really does equal Blaylock I'm a seller/buyer. Lidge'll be lights out again but right now his lights are out.
If Lidge would still get Blalock after today, I'd be shocked. Didn't the Rangers have scouts at the game? But hey -- I agree with you. If they'll still do it, I'm down.
Yesterday, Lidge gets us Blalock or Wilkerson. Today? Uh, not Maybe some magical beans if we're lucky.
Ain't that the truth. That would have been trade is looking better and better. Btw, Wilkerson has been known to really turn it on late in the season and Barajas would be miles better than what we trot out there daily.
Agreed. I really don't want Purpura to make a mistake and give up the farm for very unlikely shot at the playoffs. We make it with what we have and hope for next season. Despite what you all may think, I think it was the right thing to do for Purpura to NOT do anything this offseason. We were in a bad position with Bagwells contract, being obligated to play Biggio/Ausmus full time etc. Next season is where we really see what this team has. It'll all depend on the young pitchers coming up. If we can get 2 quality starters out of that bunch we can be contenders again.
Unlike fans, GMs don't value a player based on one performance. You act as though he just started struggling today. If someone's trading for Lidge, they know exactly what they are getting, and today's performance doesn't change that one bit.
I don't necessarily agree with that because then why would the Orioles & Rangers have flown in special scouts the last two days to check him/us out, as many of the reports have said? But whatever, that's not important .. I hope you're correct, Major. I wish him gone. On a personal note, you & I have had some interesting personal debate the last few days. All that aside, do these BUMS ever get you down? I feel like nuthin' but HATIN' right now.
I get disappointed during the playoffs and, if we're in a race in September and lose, I'll be disappointed if we lose at that point. But for me, I just find it very hard to care about 162 regular season games. Its not in our control and really, very few teams in baseball make the playoffs, and we've been a bit spoiled by how often we do it, and how much fun the last two seasons were. I'm certainly disappointed with the way the season has gone, but I just tend to watch fewer games and pay attention less, which actually frees up a lot of time for me! I do think we're still capable of a big run - we've played about as bad as we can and are still only 6 games back, but we'll see. If not, it will be a fun offseason with all the salary we'll have and the amount of young talent on the team. I'm the same way with the Rockets - I really could care less about November through February or so.
Unfortunately, people don't realize enough how hard it is in baseball... how extraordinarily fortunate this city has been the last two years (and before that) to see this sort of success on the baseball field. This isn't basketball where more than half the teams make the playoffs. Nor is it Football, where a team can drastically improve, and come out of nowhere to win a Superbowl, if they have good health and the schedule works out in their favor. Everything evens out in baseball... if this team went on improbable runs each of the last two seasons, there's a good chance that a similar team will have just as improbable of a fall.
Folks, I realize your heads may be clouded by some of the posts you have to read in this section of the site, but you should be aware by this time that Cat is not a moron and he knows that many of the guys he mentioned would not fall under the typical trade deadline rent-a-player category. That's irrelevant - he's saying he wants to start trading players who could fetch MORE than they are worth from teams who are desperate to add such pieces. Wheeler was mentioned, for example, because of the ridiculous going rate for relief pitchers - particularly ones who have put up his kind of numbers consistently. He would cost a pretty penny in the marketplace, and most assuredly someone would be willing to pay it. The point of "selling" the players we have at this deadline would not be to dump salary or save ourselves from impending free agence, it would very simply be to acquire players that would make our team considerably better in 2007 (and beyond) in exchange for players that can make other teams somewhat better in 2006. Point is, dissect the idea (as some are doing), rather than the label of "selling" that's attached to it. Personally, I think there are very strong arguments to be made either way. A deficit of six games behind a team that's not exactly a sleeping giant can, as Aceshigh points out, certainly be overcome, and the best way to get help to do that is be on the buying side. The playoffs being the crapshoot that they are, I firmly believe that we WOULD have a shot at a championship if we got there. And if we won 86 games, snagged the wildcard in a play-in and then won the World Series, no one would remember the ****ty play that's characterized the year so far, except in a pleasant haze of nostalgia. But I think it's true that regular-season dominance is a sort of prize in and of itself, and that is already out of our reach this year. Our current team has already demonstrated its limits over the past few years - good-but-not-great, extremely inconsistent, .550 material when all is said and done. It's difficult to hang on to most of the pieces that contribute to being just an above-average team and add players on the periphery to become a dominant team. To do that, you need to be changing significant pieces. What I don't think would be an awful idea is going into the deadline without a "buyer" or "seller" mentality, but rather an "improve the team" mentality. Tejada improves the team now and in the next few years, if you get an assurance that he won't demand a trade. So would Linebrink and Kottaras, and the Padres are running out of options for that third baseman they want. Those are sort of positive improvements. We could also get some addition-by-subtraction. Get a prospect for Wilson, for example, who has not played badly but has not played like the left fielder of a dominant team would almost certainly need to. Ditto Willy and CF, unless you honestly believe he's put it together over the past few days. An "improvement" mentality at the deadline is okay with creating a few immediate holes on the 25-man roster, as long as they can be filled with a minimum of fuss in the offseason. In August and September, therefore, you start to get a look at some of the players within your own system who might be skilled enough to be part of that dominant regular-season team you're trying to build quickly. You have games where Tejada is playing short behind Jason Hirsh, who's being caught by J.R. House, who's being mocked by Rox Addict for throwing out 3% of baserunners who attempt to steal against him. You get a good feel for what those players can do at the major-league level, and in the offseason you patch up the holes and go into 2007 fully expecting to compete for a division title. Of course, we're only six games out at the moment...
Well, the benefit of losing is that you are forced to go out there and improve, or risk losing the fan base you built up by winning consistently. The best thing that could have happened in 2000 was that the Astros made a total commitment to pitching, and realized that guys like Miller and Oswalt (who had never set foot in the Astrodome) wouldn't be intimidated to pitch in MMP. They also realized that you didn't need big-time sluggers at all positions when you play half your games in this field (ie - Meluskey at catcher)... but you did need to play solid defense and have guys who can handle a pitching staff (getting Ausmus). Then in 03, the club realized that the gems in the farm system had all been called up, or had been injured and ineffective (Hernandez and Redding)... thus they ventured into the FA market and spent $$ on Pettite (which led to Clemens). Now, the club has to realize that they're not going to get the lights out starting pitching, and the offense must be improved at key offensive positions (ie - corner outfield). Additionally, they need better OBP at the top of the lineup. Finally, they gotta be flexible when it comes to bullpen pitchers... cause just as fast as they've built up their reputation... apparently it can all fall apart with just a year's notice.
