The other day, in a game thread, Jeff said an interesting thing. When discussing a game we had won, a poster stated that Yao had not gotten enough shots. Jeff responded to the effect that 'when we win the game, it doesn't matter how many shots anyone got.' Now as much as I respect Jeff in almost every way, I couldn't disagree more. In my opinion, that is exactly the kind of thinking which has held this team back for so long, and we saw it again last night. We have always known that there are gmes where Steve, Cat, et al lead us to victory simply by virtue of their exceptional individual abilites. That they have been able to do so has, to a large extent, explained their continued existence in the NBA despite having less than average understandings of team play or fundamental basketball. But it is that they have been able to do this and occassionally win that has reaffirmed, in their minds, the concept that their way works. Had playing iso ball always met with failure, there is no way they would still believe in it. But the flaw in iso ball is that it acts as a sort of water anchor; keeps you from falling off too far, but also prevents you from ever maiking any susbtantial progress. So when we play iso ball, and win, it is, in my mind, more damaging, in the long term, than when we play iso ball and lose. Losing makes players question the way their playing, or it should, but winning tells them "this is the way to go." There is a reason why the guys who don;t have as much ability who do make it to the league have one thing in common; they play fundamental basketball. They have learned that they cannot succeed playing individual basketball based on their ability, but can transcend their limitations by using their heads. Conversly, there are several exceptionally talented players who never win because they rely predominantly on their individual ability, which becomes a habit limiting their ability to succeed. Michael Jordan's highlights and championships have had a lasting effect on many of todays players, as they grew up watching the highlights, seeing the trophies, and asuming that one meant the other. What they missed was the fact that Jordan worked incredibly hard at the fundamentals, and a player who began his career as a poor defense dunk machine ended it ( originally) as an exceptional mid0range shooter, passer, and defender. That's the part that players with talent often overlook, and I think that Steve and Cat are among them. So when I see games like the last two, wherein we played individual ball, wherein Steve went away from the prgress he'd made at directing an inside-out offense as he did in the first game, where I watch in disbelief as Yao makes a big block, rushes downcourt, sets up in the post, and Steve prompty dribbles right by him en route to chucking up an off balance prayer, and I cringe. Fundamental basketball: reward your big men. Steve has simply never learned it. I cringe a little more, long term, when later in that same game our individual abilities manage to pul out the win for us because it confirms all the bad habits Steve and co. have built up over the years, and sets back their belief that the new way is the right way. We all knew the students in high school who breeze along on their brains and never do any work. Some of them can still pull it off when they get to undergrad, and even a few who get away with it in grad school, but most who never developed study skills or learned how to work fall by the wayside somewhere along the way, while many with lesser actual ability progress further because the adjustment to each level only encompassed new material and levels of learning, not having to suddenly learn how to study on the fly. It's the same in basketball... Before another Steve vs. Yao argument develops, this is not about that. Our coach has said that the offense should run through Yao, and we aren't doing it. That some of the blame may be attributable to Yao in no way diverts from that simple truth. I taped last night's game, and replayed it again today, and I can tell you that the number of times Yao passed out of a single team was nothing close to the number of times he set up down low, got position, spread his arms, and was ignored by Mo, Steve, Cat etc. I am not calling for trades, or bashing players; it's waaaay too soon to do either. But it's not too soon to disagree with people like Jeff, and say that if you form bad habits, they might help you win some games, but they're still bad habits, and how you played can matter more, long term, than whether or not you outsocred the other team on a given night.
Re: the title...you can assume that I was being ironic, or, more accurately, meant to type 'empty'...
i sincerely believe that with JVG at the helm we wont have to worry about yaos touches. It is obvious taht the players DO listen to JVG, ie improvment in defense, but with defense,it is more to do with effort, which is easier to correct. Offensively, the old habits are harder to correct, because its not as easy as just working harder. But since these guys are listening to jvg they will eventually come around, simulanteously with a more aggresiveand comfident yao.
Another Yao only fan thread. Nothing new to see here. Move on. j/k Seriously, if this thread was started by someone like Yetti, it would have been scorned. This is an example of a point eloquently stated will get the ear. Conversely, even if you are right, but you state you point rudely, you'll just turn people off. Sorry, MacBeth, don't mean to hijack your thread.
macbeth, you must have been eavesdropping on my conversation with my buddy last night. that victory is fools gold. we can't reach the next level if we don't focus and continue to run the offense through yao.
I agree most of your post, and just have a couple of things which I left in to disagree with. I only half agree with Steve dribbling past Yao who was set up and waiting for the ball. It was true in the NJ game, and not really true in the Bulls game, on the whole. In fact, and this goes toward another point you made about getting away from JVG's system, JVG mentioned the passing in the Chicago game as a strong point and said it was one of the reasons why the team shot so well in the Chicago game. I also want to say that even when he was playing so horribly in NJ, and reverting back to his old keep the ball drive on four players tendencies, Steve's defense has been consistantly better last night, so not all the old bad habbits are back. I do see your point that a win might encourage bad habits, but it does also encourage playing good defense, which is a new good habit. Also in the end our record will be decided by the W's not whether we always made the correct pass. That being said, ideally, making the correct pass will lead to more W's. I just wanted to say that I could Jeff's side, in his quote about winning.
It's pretty simple. Imagine you're the new hot shot employee hired to turn around the company. Existing co-workers are skeptical and somewhat suspicious of you and your intentions. The boss announces to the whole company that from now on, you're "the one". Existing co-workers become even more suspicious of you. You are just trying to "fit in" and be one of the guys, careful not to step on anyone's toes. The boss tells you "You're too talented just to fit in, you need to take charge". Imagine everyone fawning all over you and blaming your co-workers for the company's misfortunes. Imagine the most well liked and established co-workers are petulant, whiny, and somewhat immature. Imagine this except now you're a complete foreigner, barely speak the language, and know absolutely no one - a stranger in a strange land. You are Yao Ming. What do you do.
Does that mean by calling Yao to be nasty, JVG wants Yao to show he wants the ball on the court so that JVG can push guards to give Yao the ball? After all, if Yao himself does not have the confidence or too modest to say/show it that he wants the ball, JVG can't just push the guards to give him the ball all the time.
I agree that it's fool's gold in that we do need to run the offense through Yao, but it's also a reminder of who we need to rely on at Clutch time. Richard Jefferson of the Nets said it best when he mentioned that Steve is still the only player on the team capable of destroying other teams. THAT DOES NOT MEAN I THINK STEVE SHOULD HAVE THE OFFENSE RUN THROUGH HIM OR THAT HE SHOULD TAKE THE MOST SHOTS. It does mean that he is the most capable player to put the team on his shoulders at certain times when they need it and use his ability and will to take over a game. Last night reminded us that Steve is still the best option in those situations.
By the way, maybe Yao will get plenty of touches if he is on the Jazz team. The PnR can make him score tons of points. I am surprised that he never tried any mid-range jumper after a PnR. Maybe guards never pass the ball after PnR.
Agreed. But I think JVG will bring the heat when they roll tape! That's the best thing so far for me this season - in interviews, each player refers directly to something specific they learned from the last game. That's JVG breaking tape, and making it specific, technical. Players can buy into that. It's better than a bunch of heart and spirit hoo-haa. On that note, off to church for Wed. dinner .
Well said, Macbeth. I watched the game last night and again today. I, too, noticed the same things you described. We came away with the win last night because Steve's shots finally started falling in the final minutes of the game. That wont always be the case, though. We may not always be as lucky. Steve was like 0-10 going into the 3rd quarter. JVG threatened to pull him out if he, "didn't stop playing like a fool". I saw some players playing selfishly, throwing up careless shots hoping they would fall, rather than playing as a team.The only hot shooter was Cat. I saw glimpses of the old Rockets out there.
I forgot to mention something when referring to the games and Steve's old habits coming back. I agree whole heartedly with the NJ game. But most of his shots in the Memphis and Chicago games were good shots that he should have taken. There are exceptions, but overall he was taking shots well within the gameplan.
While I agree with this in general, it is still very possible, and very necessary for us to be able to win games when we're not running the offense through Yao. Some teams will go to great lengths to deny Yao the ball, such as the sandwich double team away from the ball NJ used at times. If Yao's not open, he's not open. In those cases, we have to be able beat teams when we can play 4 on 3 on offense, and in general, we did. I'm not saying last night's victory was perfect- too many turnovers, too few assists (Moochie is still pathetic). But, there is something to be said for defeating the 2 time reigning EC champs, on the road, on the 2nd night of a back to back, by double digits. Sure, K-Mart was out, but we're missing 3 rotation players (the Griffins and Pike). You're playing the Lakers- do you want Kobe Bryant taking the shot, or Devean George? Teams are gonna do what they can to deny Yao as much as possible. When teams go to extreme lengths, we have to still be able to beat them-it's kind of like being able to beat a full court press.
best post this season, also, i think that jvg just said that because what would guys like jj, mobley, francis, and mo say after playing so hard, some of them playing well, and us beating the eastern champs then getting blasted by their coach for not giving one guy the ball. You can't play favorites after a game like last nights
Macbeth, Ray Charles can see better than you. When Yao shows up on a full time basis there will be enough opportunities for the ball to go through him. By showing up I mean he needs to be better conditioned and be, in the words of the coach, more hungry to dominate. If Steve was playing like a fool, Yao definitely have been in last night's game. The team is playing well under difficult circumstances like a new system and players missing. The team is at the top on many offensive categories despite a high turnover rate. The scoring distribution is an absolute beauty. We are leading the league in 3pt fg % because a lot of those shots have been open because of the presense of Ming and the ball and player movement. So put those glasses on Macky.
Excellent post. On the other hand, Yao should just shout:"Give me the damn ball!" so they might have no excuses for not passing him the rock. I think sometimes they just take advantage of Yao being too nice.
Well said. The sooner SF and Cat understand that, the sooner Rockets will become a championship team. But, the problem is even they understand it, they just don't want to make any sacrifice.
