Yes, this will be another Francis thread, not a bashing thread, but a questioning of one of his acclaimed attributes. Many admire and constantly note that Francis is a great rebounding PG, possibly the best in the league with his career average of over 6 boards a game. However, I have never given this statistic and ability much weight. What are the overall strengths (and weaknesses) of having a rebounding point guard? On one hand, when people mention Jason Kidd, who was a triple double machine, he gets boards so he can set up the offense for his team on the other end of the court. On the other hand, rebounding is a strenuous effort, especially if battling against guys several inches taller and tens of pounds heavier, a lot of energy is wasted on getting that ball when a larger forward or center could have got it. And Francis is not Kidd, and i think has only gotten one triple double in that famous laker game. In terms of criteria for a good pg, it is usually contingent on their points, assists, steals, and fg%. Rebounds are an otherwise less important statistic. The most extreme Francis haters would say that he is just stat padding and taking boards away from his big men, showing a lack of team work and a lack of trust for his teammates. This is of course just character bashing, but this does not change the point that rebounding is usually a job that the big men are supposed to be responsible for most of the game. It is not the same as say, a powerforward that has high assist numbers, as those assists directly lead to more points, whereas boards only increase the chance for more points, while lowering the chances for the opponent scoring again. Overall, it is great for the whole team, but realistically, i am still going to wish that motay was a better rebounder (and *applaud* he has been this year). I would rather have cato grabbing those rebounds while francis saves some of his energy and sets up the offense on the other end. So, in the end, I just want to question the value of this strange ability for a point guard. Yes it adds more to the overall team stat, but he is doing a job that is not his main responsibility. What are people's thoughts on the usefulness of a rebounding point guard?
I hear a lot of criticism of having a Stockton-like point guard. Stockton would have gotten 2 rings if MJ wasn't standing in his way. Just because Stockton who is the epitomy of a passing point guard didn't win against MJ, doesn't mean he couldn't win against every other team in the league. Jazz would have wiped the floor with any other team in the East, but they had to deal with MJ.
Hakeem and his team kept Stockton from that brass ring a couple of times and Hakeem had Kenny Smith Rocket River lotta folx kept the jazz and flopton from the ring
Nyquill, I've said it before and I say it again. Our big men can't rebound. While both Yao and Cato are blessed with height and did improve our team in the rebounding category because they will get their share of rebounds because of it, both of them have very slow reaction to the ball. Rebounding is all about explosiveness, positioning, reaction, and desire to get the ball. Our big man just hasn't shown us that they can do that on consistant basis enough for me to not want Steve to rebound. You say assist for big man leads to 2pts. welll a reb gives us another possession or take away one of theirs. A couple of times I saw other team was able to set up their offense 3 times because offensive rebounds, that hurts the teams morale and really becomes the intangibles that can cost you the game.
You do realize that Hakeem was one of the most dominant forces in the history of the NBA right? Hakeem in his heyday = Shaq during the Lakers' championship run. If Hakeem drank a potion of youth and came back to play for the Rockets, this team would be alright with a Kenny Smith for point guard. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen. This team has no option on offense that is almost an automatic for 2 points.
I aggree. I mean we need all the guys we can get to go for the rbs. As of lately we have been awefull on defensive rebounding. We stop teams on their 1st possession but then they get another, and if they don't score there then they get another rebound for another chance. Then they usually drain a 3.
I don't think we have a poor rebounding frontcourt, although the numbers may be skewed by the fact that we're a poor-shooting team. Yao averages 10+ rebounds in around 38 minutes Cato averages 9+ rebounds in around 29 minutes I think that's absolutely incredible. Even if you throw MoT in there with his recent improvement in rebounding, we have a damn good rebounding frontcourt. I think it's ok to have a rebounding SG, but not okay to have a rebounding PG. If Francis goes up and gets the board, he usually is not adept at going down the court and completing the play. However, if we had a PG who could run plays effectively (not bashing, just wishing), then, for example, Mobley or Francis would go up for the board, immediately put it in the hands of this fantasy PG, and let him run with it. I really really wish we had a healthy Griffin right about now. He's a solid rebounder, and I'm sure with Pat Ewing around, he would've improved his rebounding fundamentals as well. Who knows what we could've seen. Maybe there's still hope? Anyhow, back to topic.... Francis has reduced the number of rebounds he gets, and I don't think we necessarily need him to rebound much anyway. I'd much rather see him speeding down the court and recieving a bullet pass from Yao Ming. However, our fast break is horriffic, and I hope I live to see the day it;s working efficiently enough for ANYONE to get the rebound, and know immediately how to set up the play.
Eddie Griffin is going to stay suspended unless something out of the blue happens. I believe suspensions are without pay in the NBA, so Les Alexander is saving a few million dollars this year without him. I doubt he is coming back.
Francis' rebounding would mean something if he was able to turn those rebounds into fast breaks, ala Kidd and Payton. If rebounding effort is what hinders Francis to be able to do the other things we need ie. run an offense, then he should abandon rebounding. Some might say he likes to rebound to pad his stats. I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that ascertation. Francis seems to just want to be a "ballplayer" rather than fitting into specific roles that the Rockets need. It's nice that he rebounds, but if he doesn't do the other things that are needed from a PG, then it's all for naught.
I think we need some kind of chart that shows where exactly Steve's rebounds come from? Regardless of how high he can jump, I doubt the could average 6 boards by battling it out in the paint with other team's forwards and centers. I think most of his boards actually come from long rebounds, ie shots that bounce off the rim or board and fly away from the paint. I think the rebounding point guard can be a damn good thing, but you need him to be more like Kidd with a fast breaking team. Kidd grabs the board, and takes off with guys infront getting set up before he crosses midcourt, or trailers ready to take a handoff for an easy layup or dunk. We've all seen that Francis doesn't have the skills to run a succesful break as the PG, so it's not useful for him to board. Of course, we don't have a fastbreaking team anyway, especially since Yao is such a big part of the offense. Our team is basically a half court team. I think Francis rebounding in our half court offense is beneficial because with him getting the board, it gives MoT and Yao time to head down the court to get set up. That's my amature opinion.
yes when francis sees the ball coming towards him, hes thinking "Time to pad some stats..." what you want him to do, dodge away from the ball so the other team gets it??? Some of these poster's logic here is just insanly crazy!
so now people even start complaining about the fact that steve rebounds very good??? it is a strange world. i think it is bad that Yao passes this good he gets assists that stevie could have had. come on people. complaining about the weaknesses in francis his game(i konw he has some) is ok. but even complaining about if it is good that he grabs rebounds is not good. every rebound counts. i do not know if they are less importend then assists. i even think they are more inportend, because every rebound gets you another posesion. and an assist get syou a bucket. but you can also get the bucket with a good post move, or good drive. you cannot get enough posesions to win a game, if you do not rebound good.
Mobley & JJ can both handle the ball. so if Steve gets a board, he still has 2 options to pass it out to in the open court to get the offense across half court in a hurry. Rebounding PGs aren't a bad thing. Magic would go for boards. (Of course, he's not a prototypical PG, BUT ...) I don't think anyone ever knocked Magic for rebounding.
How about worry about getting downcourt to start a fastbreak? A PG's main role is to get the offense going. By Francis rebounding, he's not doing that. This is like Mo Taylor thinking that he should shoot 3 pointers.
I think what wizkid meant was that Yao and Cato are not good rebounders considering their height. Not their numbers aren't good. Take a look at the games were we're out muscled and out positioned vs shorter 6'9" PFs. It's about timing, positioning, explosiveness and jumping quickness, not height. Having Francis rebound is ok with me. This rebounding ablity is a residual from his naturaly jumping quickness and apex. But I'd trade that ablity for a PG that could do PG things. I think it would be much more valuable on a long term basis (game to game).
So, what you are saying is that Francis getting a rebound is just another opportunity for him to turn the ball over? LOL! Oh, sorry...ahem...carry on.
You'd have to watch every game very closely to see how many TO's come right after rebounds to make that statement. You got some free time?
I agree. And I'll augment. When Francis doesn't get the rebound, he remains within the arc for the outlet pass. The uptempo teams generally outlet further from the opponents basket. (Watch where Earl Boykins and even Andre Miller receive the ball on made FG's). So IMO, it's not a matter of whether he rebounds or someone else does, the opportunity to push tempo is there but is not taken. I disagree. Both Mobley and JJ have completed breaks this season. I doubt the Kings would have signed JJ in the first place were he not competent in the break. The Kings are generally near the top of the league in FB points. And their "track stars" consist of Bibby, Peja, CWebb, Vlade, Brad Miller, and Doug Christie. While footspeed is important, so is the committment to run, the ability to make good decisions (which JJ does) and understanding the secondary break. IMO, the Rocket have enough footspeed, but lack the desire and/or committment to push tempo. And I still feel it's the players selecting the transition pace and not Van Gundy.
the rockets lack a point gaurd who can get the whole team involvedste...even though ve tries. they also lack a power forward who can defend and grab rebounds aggresively. the answer to the rockets problems i believe can be solved by adding dennis rodman and charlie ward. rodman has always been a great defender and rebounder and charlie knows how to get other players involved. many people think rodman is too old and will disrupt the chemstry on the team but i think its worth a shot to see what he can still do.
