Okay, I know that we have other problems like individual defense, do our players listen to their coach (or has the coach just given up), etc. However, I want to focus on offense. In the 20 plus games that have been played so far, Yao has shown to us a dimension that we have not seen for at least several seasons (going back to a healthy Hakeem) and that is a low post presence. Now, what I mean by a low post presence, I mean someone who can control the tempo of the offense. Remember the days when we would dump it into Hakeem and then he would either pass to the open man or do a dreamshake? Barkley was sorta the same way albeit smaller. Everything flowed through the post. Now, Yao is a rookie although a brilliant one. It will still take some time for him to adjust fully to the NBA game. Yet, he has shown himself to be a quick learner and outstanding at doing little things like setting picks and screens. I know that the mindset has been isos. And with 2 athletically gifted guards like Francis and Mobley, that was our greatest strength. I do think that everyone on the Rockets team has realized the need to change the team from an iso and guard oriented one to one that focuses on going to the low post in Yao; however, it is something that is a change , and those things always take time. I would venture that the rest of this season will see us get frustrated as the Rockets continue to try to slowly go to this new (but really old) philosophy on offense. But there is one big problem which is the one that my title is referring to: personnel. We are a perimeter-oriented team trying to make the transition to a post-oriented team. Yet, we have two players that demand shots on the perimeter in Francis and Mobley. This may sound obvious to everyone, but I really feel that for our offense to reach its full potential, we have to have a balance. As much as I hate the Lakers, they have a great balance (or did) in their inside and outside games with Shaq and Kobe. You don't see Fisher having to take 15+ shots a game for them. If he did, then that takes shot attempts away from Shaq and/or Kobe. What does this mean? Well, we have Francis locked up to a max deal so he is not going anywhere. Yao is not going anywhere for a while either until at least his rookie deal is up. MManal eluded to this in another thread of mine, but we are going to have to do a better job of surrounding Francis and Yao with role players who can play off their strengths. Is it any coincidence that since Mobley came off the DL, Yao's touches have gone down? It is because the Rockets are still running that offense they have run for the last 3 or 4 years. I feel that Mobley either has to be moved or become the 6th man. If he is out there with Francis and Yao, we just don't achieve that balance on offense. Think of it this way, when Clyde was playing with Hakeem in '95, could you imagine what would have happened if Rudy had stayed with Maxwell instead of Kenny? Granted, Kenny is more of a PG than Maxwell but Max is the better defender and technically either he or Drexler could have run the point. Yet, it would have been a disaster because Max would demand shots and have taken shots away from Drexler and Olajuwon. We played with fire when we brought Barkley in, but you can get away with, IMO, 2 post players and 1 perimeter player compared to 1 post player and 2 perimeter players. So, in conclusion, we have to get our offense back to having one clear-cut guy on the perimeter and one clear-cut guy in the post. To me that is Francis and Yao and if anyone is added to that mix that demands shots like Mobley that is going to cause this team not to play to its potential on offense.
I agree and disagree. I agree with the the offense needing time because it's a young team and they're changing styles from perimeter to post so you have to give them time. I kind of disgree with needing one post player and one perimeter player dominating on the plays. Ming is obviously the man on the post and Francis is the man on the perimeter, but in order for this offense to dominate they're going to need an extra force in the post and on the perimeter to slash to the basket and operate in the post and take pressure off of Ming and Francis and prevent this team from having a one dimensional offense like the Lakers, where it's basically the Shaq and Kobe show. We need 2nd options, on the perimeter Mobley is clearly the #2 guy to back-up Francis, that isn't the problem. If Francis is tired, getting double-teamed, is in foul trouble or having an off-night we have Mobley in there to take off the slack. Our problem is that 2nd post option. When the same thing is happening to Ming we have to go back to being a perimeter team and that kinds of stunts the grow the team. We need another low post threat, the 2nd option to Ming. To me that option should be Griffin. I'd like to see Griffin operate more in the post then sit outside and chuck up shots. We have the backcourt duo, having a pair of low post producer would make this team a very good team, maybe even an elite team soon.
I brought this up about a month and a half ago, and didn't get a really clear answer. Personally, I think it's only a matter of time before either Steve or Cat get traded. If one of them MUST go, It should probably be Steve. Yao is getting half his jack taken by the Chinese government...Barring injuries, he'll want and probably deserve a max contract, and the Rockets simply won't have the cash to have two max players on their team. As proven by Juwan Howard, anybody in the league can be traded. As max contracts become more and more common, Steve's deal will look less and less intimidating. My guess is that Yao will be more popular in three years than Steve, especially if the Rockets don't advance deep into the playoffs by then. The fans will want him instead of Steve. When it comes down to it, Steve will probably be the odd man out... Of course, all this is three years down the road...
That's not true. Any contender can definitely afford to have 2 Max contracts, and one above average contract (5-7M). There's also a new CBA to be decided on soon, and the salary cap won't go down again. If Les is serious about contending, being a million or 2 into luxury tax territory should be a non-factor.
Why wouldn't the Rockets have the money to sign two max players, they have Yao's Bird rights. And why would the fans want Yao instead of Francis who is signed to a big contract? I would guess the fans would want both. If the fans wanted to push Francis out to praise Ming more then the fans enjoy a lottery team because that's what the Rockets would become. Why is it a matter of time before Yao or Francis are traded!? We're winning, I could understand if the Rockets were 3-20, but the Rockets are 13-10. It's a matter of time that one of them are traded because the Rockets are tired of winning?
Having 3 scoring options is nice on the court. But I don't mind bench Mobley if he continue to jack away too many bad shots.
I'm not so sure we want to head back to the days of yore. When we ran the inside-out offense, we relied heavily on Hakeem being able to create much of the offense and allowing guard-select to sit outside and hopefully be on some sort of a hot streak. The team understood that Hakeem was The Man and no one ever questioned that. In addition, the entire league was trying to copy this style of offense and other carbon copies of the Rockets (Knicks and Heat) really began to wear down the speed of the game (19 - 22 seconds of ball movement followed by a shot from the post or outside perimeter). The league (and fans) did not like seeing this grind-it-out game and rules began showing up to take care of this problem. Now, for today's game...I really think there is only one team that can run the inside-out game...the Lakers. Their team structure (and coaching style) is so much different than all the other teams, I think that is why it still works. Take a look at the other teams that are doing well...Dallas, Sacramento, etc...these are teams that are using a spread offense, and it appears to be working. They do not rely heavily on having a dominant center, nor do they rely on having their guards consistently make shots from the outside. It's a nice blend of penetration and mid-range shooting. Now, don't get me wrong...I would love to see the Rockets be able to create a strong presence in the low posts, but I don't think the personality of this team would allow that to be the main focus of our offense. I don't think Steve Francis would ever feel comfortable in playing second fiddle to Yao. Ultimately, I don't think the Rockets have found their identity yet and until the team matures a bit more, we'll probably continue to see some of these in-game brain-farts that we've seen recently.
Mobley scored 27 points yesterday. I dunno about Ming I think he gets tired or he would become a much more aggresive scorer. Ming should demans the ball and if they arent getting th ball to Ming its not no ones fault but the coach for not running plays for Yao and if Yao isn't shooting enuff shots when he gets the ball its his own fault. I dunno Im not sure how big of a score Yao is gonna be right away,he is more of a player that opens up the offense and draws double teams,also plays great defense but I don't think he is a go to man yet. I think its cuz alot of the stronger players in the league do a good job of keeping him on the outside. I dunno what it is but I don't think its Mobley's fault that Yao isn't getting as many shots. I think if they kept going to Yao he would tire out quickly and he would get pushed around.
Manny Ramirez I like this thread because it helps us focus on the team and what needs to be done - win or lose. I still like to optimistically believe that Rudy still knows what he is doing but somtimes he makes me scratch my head with the lack of discipline (play running wise) his wards display out there on the court. I will give him some credit also because he has done a few things well also this season e.g. Yao low post development but his success this season and beyond will heavily depend on the consistency of his team night in-night out (solid/consistent "team play" at least 5 of every 7 games). The painful thing for me is that I know for sure that we have the tallent to go a long long way with Steve, Mobley and Yao at the top but in spite our descent record all we have seen so far is 2 steps forward - 2 steps backwards. Steve has given a lot but he has been as much a dissapointment for me because of my high regard for his ability - after he is "The Franchise"; in his 4th season. We have endured enough of the growing pains of the last 3 seasons - the time is now for on-the-court accountability for Rudi, Steve and the rest of the Rockets team.
Ok Manny a question.... Why can we get away with two players in the post and one on the perimeter? It seems to me the other way around would be much more logical, and it is also what worked in the past for the Rockets and other teams. The reason I say a single post player and two perimeter players is better than two post players and one perimeter player is because the two perimeter players can feed off of the post guy. A post guy is generally going to be more stationary and not be running around as much on the offense, whereas a perimeter player is usually moving around, making cuts, setting screens for the other perimeter player, and whatnot. Sort of like how the offense in Portland runs with Sabonis in. So if you have two post guys then you are making the offense less mobile. Also if you have multiple perimeter players then you have more shooting threats that can stop zone defenses. Just had a quick take on that and wanted to see what your thoughts on that were.
it would be a dream...to have the threesome (not that kind of threesome) scoring around 23pts each... Stevie:24pts Mobes:27pts Yao:25pts a game...
robbie, Hmmm...good points! I didn't want to say it in the initial post but I really feel that Francis and Mobley are the same type of player. So, I should have clarified the 2 perimeter, 1 post player statement. Ideally, I would want my team to be made up like this: 1 (PG) - he should be the playmaker, looking to get others involved. He should push the ball on the break and should be the best free throw shooter on the team. He also, without saying, be the best ballhandler and an adequate defender. He should also be a threat to shoot behind the arc. However, his main job is to be the conductor of the offense and get others involved. 2 (SG) - this should be one of your top scorers on the team. He should be the best 3 point shooter or at least in the top 2 on the team. He should always be looking to take the ball strong to the basket. He should have some slashing ability but also be comfortable with shooting off a screen. Defense should be adequate and he needs to help out from time to time on the glass. This position, in my mind, is the toughest one to play because it requires so much. 3 (SF) - this guy should be a fluid athlete like the 2. He should be a good outside shooter who can knock down the 3. He also should be confident enough to post his man (if the other team is playing a man-to-man defense) to give the team a lift down low. He should be one of the quicker players on the floor and should be one of the best defenders on the court. He also should not be afraid to hit the glass for a rebound. He like the 2 should also be able to fill the lane on the break and have some slashing ability. 4 (PF) - this guy has to be the toughest guy on the team. He has to be the best or second-best rebounder on the team. He needs to be an "enforcer" type who is not afraid to set a hard pick or screen. He should be a hard-nosed defender who won't back down from any challenge. He should RARELY ever shoot a 3 pointer. He needs to play 10 feet and in from the basket. He doesn't need to be a big-time scorer, but will if the center is not offensive-minded. 5 (C) - at the very minimum, he needs to be the best shot-blocker and one of the best rebounders on the team. If he has offensive skills, he needs to demand the ball in the low post and use his moves to score. If he has the range to shoot outside, then he needs to take advantage of it as that adds another new dimension and helps draw out his man from the basket. He, IMO, should be the team's 2nd best passer after the PG. Defensively, he has to be one of the best and he has to be smart. He can't let silly fouls cost him playing time. Now, this is in a perfect world. You won't find all 5 guys like this, you would probably be lucky to find 2. However, I see your point in the perimeter game as you want the 2 and 3 to be your main threats out there as well as the 1 to keep them honest. But I used the Barkley-Olajuwon example simply because: 1) It worked (to a degree) for a while (as far as I know, no one complained about it publicly) 2) Both Barkley and Olajuwon were advanced in age - now, yea, if we had these 2 when they were in their 20s, then I would say that we would be having the same discussions that we are having now with Francis/Mobley/Yao. However, it looked like on the surface that Barkley had no problems with Hakeem getting more touches than him on a given night and for the most part, I think Hakeem was the same way (Clyde it seemed was a different story....) But yea, Sabonis is the classic example of a post player feeding all kinds of perimeter players. However, I don't think that Stoudamire is going to shoot as many times as Bonzi Wells or Steve Smith or whoever is playing the 2. Just to address a couple of other things in this thread: RocksMill - of course, you want to have as many scoring options as possible but the problem I see is egos. It is always been there with the Lakers....just imagine if they had another big-time scorer to go along with Shaq and Kobe (don't laugh but they did at one time have that in Rice and see what happened to him ). So, in theory, what you said is what you want; however, I just don't see how you can make it work in reality when you have to take into account the egos. boomboom - I hear you on teams adjusting to the old Rocket teams that were based on Olajuwon, but IMO, I think Yao, IF he continues to progress, has the chance to be just as good or even better than the Dream. Not only does Yao have the range to shoot like Hakeem but he can do things that really don't show up in the boxscore, i.e. the little things. Plus he is 7'6" The smarter teams will figure out the best way to defend him, but I feel that Yao will continue to evolve as a player and find a way to still score or get a teammate to score in solving these "stop Yao at all costs" defenses. Fegwu - thanks for the kind words. I just want to see our team make the playoffs and do well. It kills me to see dumb basketball being played, but I have tried to not let it get to me too much...but it has been hard.
I still find it funny that people what to return to the offense they said was BORING and PREDICTABLE and UGLY . . . just two years ago. I remember hearing for SCREAM . . TIME TO MOVE FROM HAKEEM TO FRANCIS TIME TO PUT THE DUMP IT IN OFFENSE AWAY TIME fOR A GUARD ORIENT BLAHBLAHBLAH Is their any reason we cannot have a MIXture? How about a little PATIENCE? Why people so hot to trade everyone for e superduper star? Why why WHY? People filling their grooves now. I think we finding out certain sets of players are working I think we could manipulate the lineup better Rocket River
Something that I would like to Rockets to try for four or five games is to utilize a full-court press on defense. They're young and fast and I think the massive change in tempo might lead to an increase in fast break points. Just my suggestion.
Well said. It's not even January and we're expecting the perfect balance of inside-out basketball with a player who didn't even attend training camp. While Stevie has made some mistakes down the stretch in the past couple of games, I think he's adjusted pretty well to playing with Yao. As has Mobley, who is still expected to take a couple of those "Mobley" shots each game. At the very least, give this team 'til February. boomboom, I'm not sure a full-cout press would work well with this team.......at least currently. We're still having troubles with rotating in the zone defense, so I would hate to see some of the other talented guards take advantage of a disorganized press. Though, would like to see it in the future. First, maybe starting with a half-court press with a guard and Griffin then allowing Ming, the other guard, and foward to play a slight zone, the passing lanes.
Why do we have to run the offense from the low post? What's wrong with the high post? That's probably what the Blazers would have done if they'd ever had Sabonis in his prime. It's what the Rockets should do to keep a creative offense that involves everyone. Yao isn't really a banger, and probably never will be. But he does have some great moves, a good shot, phenomenal awareness, and good passing skills. Thosear better maximized from the high post.
haven, That is a good point. I was thinking about Olajuwon and your "traditional" post players who normally play low compared to high. However, Yao is such a special player, IMO, that he could and should revolutionize the high post position. And you are right that until he bulks up, he is better suited for the high post compared to the low post. But the main idea of the thread was to point out that there has to be a balance, IMO, between perimeter and post. As long as Mobley plays like Francis (in being the same type of player), I think that we will not have that balance.
As chance of given them some time to change , i mean we're all still holding out on you improving your posts Remember how long we have played a perimeter oriented game and needed all we can get from Steve and Cat, remember Yao missed most of training camp and didn't play much in the first few games, then Cat got injured, and so since he came back is the first tiem the big3 have played extensively together (and don't forget once the seaosn starts rolling they get minimal practice time) , this is a massive adjustment we need and you are expecting it overnight, btw Cat is moving well off the ball, so he is making improvements, have some patience Manny (my gut feeling is the balance is something they probably won't get perfect till next season)
What people need to realize is...Ok, Kenny Thomas starts to develop great chemistry with the squad.... No matter how good he plays, he's still Kenny Thomas, and just the fact that he's 6'7 means it's a position we need to upgrade. Same thing for Mo's rebounding, and Griffin's lack of aggression. If you CAN get a superstar, why the hell not? Wouldn't you rather wait for a superstar to develo chemistry? even if it takes a little longer? Isn't that how we won (Otish Thorpe for Drexler trade) a championship?
Smeg, I know that I'm a little impatient, and I have resigned myself to the fact that the rest of this season is going to be one that will feature wild inconsistencies on our Rockets. However, my bigger fear is this: To me, Mobley and Francis fulfill the same role. They are both gifted athletes with great talent, but they are the same type of player with Francis being slightly better than Mobley. Until someone, whether it is Mobley, Francis, Yao, Rudy, CD, Les, or whoever, realizes this, then we are always going to have problems on offense, IMO. I keep hoping that Francis will change his game to become more of a "traditional" PG or that Mobley will use better judgement in shot selection but I don't see that happening. Someone is going to have to make an adjustment in their game.
