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The flaw in Sabremtrics

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by rocketsjudoka, May 11, 2017.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
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    I'm sorry to pile on Morey and the organization but this series really showed the glaring flaw sabre metrics. It can't measure heart and character. I don't question Morey and D'antoni's genius but for all the ability to number crunch and come up with sophisticated offenses what is lacking is the ability to either assess character or inspire it in it. For as much as the Rockets had gaudy stats the Spurs had heart and belief. They lost two stars and had every excuse to fold it in but instead they came out with fire and went for the juggler. The legend of the Rockets is "Never doubt the Heart of a Champion". If we could analyze the 1995-1996 Rockets I doubt they come up big on Sabremetrics but they showed unbelievable heart to defeat 4 teams who all were statistically better than they were.

    You look at Popovich. He's got players who buy into his system and win. I don't know if he knows how to pick them or if he knows how inspire them. That's why he's got a lot of rings and the Rockets haven't had one in 21 years. We're never going to get over the hump until we can get players and a coach that can bring that heart.
     
  2. Hustle Town

    Hustle Town Member

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    Nah.
     
  3. THELANDLORD

    THELANDLORD Member

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  4. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
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    I saw an interview with Theo Epstein who has done more with Sabremetrics than almost anyone else but he said that when putting together the Cubs team that finally won the World series he looked for players that had character and not necessarily the ones who had the best stats. He also hired a manager who understoond the intangibles and while not the best strategist knew how to motivate players.
     
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  5. Zergling

    Zergling Member

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    Oh please stop. How old and seasoned is Pop's system and how old is our system? 1 year old? We have literally one all-star caliber player on the roster. The Spurs have a superstar, multiple future HOFs who at any point can channel their younger selves, multiple sharp shooters, a twin towers combination that can destroy us on the boards, Aldridge in particular who we still can't stop at Toyota Center, and superior defenders. They lead the league in 3pt% and defense efficiency.

    Morey's system somehow took a team with a single all-star and horrific defense/rebounding and produced the 3rd best record in the league from the Western conference. That's an amazing achievement, and that should help attract free agents to this team.
     
  6. Malaya

    Malaya Member

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    When your own fans boo you at home ... watch out! There will be fall-out.
     
  7. Phreak3

    Phreak3 Member

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    Warriors are constructed the same way as the Rockets and I don't see their players exhibiting a ton of heart or fire. They all seem pretty low key.
     
  8. topfive

    topfive CF OG

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    [​IMG]
     
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  9. oelman44

    oelman44 Member

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    Can't tell if satire or not...
     
  10. T for 3

    T for 3 Member

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    I think we should trade harden. He's not a good enough juggler. but in all seriousness, Harden is not a championship player and we should sell high while we still can.
     
  11. Stardog75

    Stardog75 Member

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    I look at the way the Rox play as being similar to a poker player that plays a Tight-Aggressive game. In a vacuum, this is the most profitable way to play poker. However, players at the table will adjust to your style of play and take countermeasures against your style and even be able to predict if you're going to raise or fold based on the action in front of you. At that point, the Tight-Aggressive poker player has to mix his play up just slightly enough to keep the other players guessing. The Spurs didn't have to worry about mid range shots and basically had 2 guys that would collapse at the rim and 3 guys cover perimeter shooters on every drive. If there were any threat of the Rox busting some mid-range Js, the Spurs wouldn't have been able to play this way. All the Rox have to do is just shoot enough to keep the D honest. Just having the threat of a mid-range will cause the lane and three point line to open up more.
    The other way that it's similar to a Tight-Aggressive poker player is that it is a very volatile style of play. Over a large sample size such as a regular season, you will see the positive result. But, when you limit the sample size to 7 games, anything can happen. The Rockets have the right idea about wanting to get most of their shots from inside the paint, FT line and at 3 PT Line. They just need to stop trying to get ALL their points from those 3 places. All they need to do is mix in a mid-range jumper every now and then so the defense won't be able to collapse to the bucket the moment the ballhandler crosses the 3 PT line. A good poker player knows to make an unorthodox play every now and then just to keep the other players at the table off balance.
    It should also be said, that all the data that supports the Rockets style of play isn't adjusted for the defensive adjustments of teams that no longer have to defend the mid-range game. So, the data is going to be a bit inflated that supports the 3s-Paint-FTs model of efficiency. Sometimes, you have to make a -EV play to increase the return of your +EV plays that come later.
    I feel that opening up the mid-range game just a little bit will help with the overall flow of the offense. How many times this season did you see a Rocket awkwardly pass up a good mid-range shot to kick it out to a 3 PT shooter who then bricks it because he caught the ball out of rhythm? It's like the players' instinct is to take the mid-range shot but then they remember that mid-range shots are "BAAaAAAD" and get rid of the ball.
    Dekker is the type of player who could probably be extremely deadly if they allowed him to develope a mid-range game.Just the threat of mid-range would make Moreyball so much more effective in my opinion.
     
  12. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    "sabre metrics" -> "sabermetrics"

    "1995-1996" -> "1994-1995"

    More importantly, I don't think there's any particular connection between "heart/desire" and the philosophical approach of the team this year.

    The personality we perceive for a team is often just the way we see its best player. Harden played like he didn't care all that much in game 6. That's a big problem, but I don't see what that has to do with the basketball philosophy.
     
  13. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Member

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    What you're describing is the McHale/Asik/Lin 2013 team :) Team oriented, leadership traits not directly tied into metrics.

    I think Rockets considered character in their last offseason. Ryan Anderson and Gordon are good coachable guys and system players, in place of disgruntled Dwight Howard. Capela in his place is a team player. It just the #1 MAIN superstar is the LEAST one with those attributes...

    When Harden's not in it, the team seems to crash down with him. Can see how it can contribute to McHale losing his job. Past that, there's a certain lack of flexibility and versatility past their core metric approach. And Harden again might be part the reason for that. He's not a fast paced player even in the fast paced scheme. Steve Nash wasnt faster than Harden, but still operated quicker. And MDA doesnt seem to officer dynamic set of coaching "troubleshooting" and adjustments. He stays with a slimmed down coaching kit and lives/dies with it.
     
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  14. HadToDoItCF

    HadToDoItCF Member

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    D'antoni should've pulled a McHale and benched Harden to see if this team could've made a run at a comeback. He's inflexible at best and one-dimensional at worst.
     

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