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The difference between MJ and Kobe

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by xiki, Jun 15, 2004.

  1. xiki

    xiki Member

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    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41897-2004Jun14.html?referrer=email

    Could you imagine this coming from Kobe 9and anyone buying it?):

    "I can't lose," Jordan said in a phone interview Monday. "I want Phil to win. Phil is the mainstay and he's a great coach. He's been through a tough year, trying to keep that team together. But that Carolina connection, I love Larry Brown. He's deserved to win a championship for years and he's finally in the position to do it, so I want him to win it. I also want Rip [Hamilton] to win and Joe Dumars to win it, too. I can't lose."

    Jordan Helped Weave a Tangled Web
    NBA Finals Reflect Superstar's Ties, Decisions
    By Steve Wyche Washington Post Staff Writer
    Tuesday, June 15, 2004; Page D01

    AUBURN HILLS, Mich., June 14 -- Though Chauncey Billups, Richard Hamilton, Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant, Larry Brown and Phil Jackson are the key figures in the NBA Finals that the Detroit Pistons can win with a victory over the Los Angeles Lakers on Tuesday, perhaps no one has had more peripheral impact on the series than retired superstar Michael Jordan.

    He helped Jackson earn six of his nine championship rings when they led the Chicago Bulls to two sequences of three consecutive title runs in the 1990s. In that stretch, the Bulls knocked off Gary Payton's Seattle SuperSonics in 1996 and Karl Malone's Utah Jazz in 1997 and 1998. Both Payton and Malone, hoping to land an evasive title, signed free agent contracts with the Lakers last summer.

    Jordan also is tied to Brown, who could win his first NBA championship in 32 years of coaching, through the unbreakable University of North Carolina bond. Then there's the Pistons' president of basketball operations, Joe Dumars, who was matched up against Jordan when Detroit squashed the Bulls' championship bids in the late 1980s then finally succumbed to Chicago when it began its championship reign in 1991.

    Jordan, who as a player-president of basketball operations with the Washington Wizards traded Hamilton to the Pistons, in essence for Jerry Stackhouse -- a move that led Hamilton, once bitter about the deal, to say he would now tell Jordan thanks. Jordan joked that Dumars got some payback with that trade.

    No matter which way the series ends, "I can't lose," Jordan said in a phone interview Monday. "I want Phil to win. Phil is the mainstay and he's a great coach. He's been through a tough year, trying to keep that team together. But that Carolina connection, I love Larry Brown. He's deserved to win a championship for years and he's finally in the position to do it, so I want him to win it. I also want Rip [Hamilton] to win and Joe Dumars to win it, too. I can't lose."

    Jordan has strong feelings about those involved in this series but foremost he wanted to explain his rationale for trading Hamilton, his teammate in 2001-02.

    Hamilton, Jordan said, wanted a contract extension, for around $8 million per year.

    "It became a money issue," said Jordan, who ran the front office from January 2000 to September 2001 before playing for two seasons. "I took it to [Wizards owner] Abe Pollin and all the people involved and nobody felt comfortable about paying what he was asking. We told him that and he suggested we explore trades. We looked at the flip side of getting value back and figured if we trade this guy, we'd get value from Stackhouse, him being a mature player, a hop and skip from being an all-star player. Stackhouse had an opt-out in his contract and if he did, we were very flexible in the free agent department."

    So flexible, they would have had enough room to try to lure Bryant or Minnesota's Kevin Garnett, Jordan said. But Pollin fired Jordan last spring and added two years onto Stackhouse's contract.

    Hamilton, meantime, has emerged as a rising star in these finals, averaging 21.5 points. Being traded from Washington, which drafted him out of Connecticut in 1999, "was kind of tough because when they tell you that you're the franchise player and then all of a sudden they mess around and trade you, it's crazy," Hamilton said yesterday. "I just try to come out every night, play hard, just to prove to everybody that I can play at this level."

    Jordan said he figured Hamilton would develop and that the Pistons, loaded with depth, defenders and having Brown as the coach, were a perfect fit for Hamilton. As for Brown, Jordan said, "He's finally got the right pieces to fit his coaching style." He went on.

    "It's strictly defense with Larry, always has been," Jordan said. "He always had defense, but not enough offense. He's got the best of both worlds now." The same wasn't said for Jackson.

    "He was dealt some tough cards," Jordan said. "A deck with Kobe being who he was, in terms of what he has to deal with personally [sexual assault charges]. You've got Gary, who's never really been in a structured system, Karl, who's only been in a structured system, and Shaq being the focal point. All those guys are adjusting to things, you've got egos to maneuver around and with that comes headaches because some players won't accept their roles.

    "In Chicago, we were so good because players had to accept roles. The strongest personality was the one there the longest -- me -- then Scottie [Pippen]. Everybody else who came in had to fall in line. You had people who understood what their roles were. Scottie and I never battled about who was number one and who was number two. It made coaching so much easier and it made the system sellable. Now you've got four guys with the Lakers, with one guy willing to sacrifice everything to get a ring, another guy willing to sacrifice but also be an integral part and the other two who have been there for a while fighting over who's the number one option. That's tough.

    "Phil's done a heck of a job to get this team where they are but now when you need sacrifice from everybody . . .

    "Another thing that comes into play, is when you do something more than once, you lose some of that hunger to do it again. Those guys are trying to do something for the fourth time. That is so hard. I lived through that. You've got to keep reinventing challenges so you can maintain that hunger.

    "If you don't, there's a team more hungry than you. They're going and getting those loose balls and making sure that every possession is important. With the Lakers, from what I've seen, every possession isn't important. They think they can turn it on and turn it off. That doesn't work and they've come up against that hungry team."
     
  2. HOOP-T

    HOOP-T Member

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    The difference between Kobe and MJ is 3.
     
  3. sup123

    sup123 Member

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    mj and kobe shouldnt be mentioned in the same sentence.
     
  4. wakkoman

    wakkoman Member

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    ....unless that sentence reads, "Michael Jordan OWNS Kobe" :p
     
  5. xiki

    xiki Member

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    Why not? Please explain.
     
  6. snowmt01

    snowmt01 Member

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    Fans overrate him, while haters underrate him.

    MJ was not that great mentally at Kobe's age. He had
    Akeemitis then: no trust for his teammates.




     
  7. xiki

    xiki Member

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    So, this is why they cannot be mentioned in the same sentence ? ? ? ? ?
     
  8. snowmt01

    snowmt01 Member

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    No. I am responding to the other guy.
    Kobe may not be as great as MJ, but he's still great.


     
  9. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    What teamates should M.J. have been trusting at an early age?
     
  10. PhiSlammaJamma

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    Kobe has been to 4 championships before Jordan has even gotten to his first. He's on pace to obliterate Jordan, like it or not. He's in his class.
     
  11. xiki

    xiki Member

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    He just doesn't have MJ's class.
     
  12. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    So we should just ignore the fact that he plays with one of the five best centers of all-time, while Jordan played with exactly zero all-star big-men.
     
  13. JPM0016

    JPM0016 Member

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    not even close. Take away the most dominate center of our time and see how many rings Kobe gets
     
  14. Val

    Val Member

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    You have to remember stats do not mean anything, especially the lack of competition the Lakers face is this new era. Plus, let's see how well Kobe does without Shaq and a bunch of role players. Kobe is an ******* who is very talented yes, but does not understand the team aspect of the game.
     
  15. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    Exactamundizzle.
     
  16. PhiSlammaJamma

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    Not true tho. Jordan had good teammates, good big men, and All stars. All of them reduced their game to play with Jordan.

    Bill Cartwright: Drafted by the Knicks in the first round (third overall) of the 1979 NBA Draft, Cartwright played his first eight seasons in New York, averaging 16.8 ppg and 7.1 rpg, shooting .552 from the floor. As a rookie, Cartwright averaged career-highs of 21.7 ppg and 8.9 rpg, shooting .554 from the floor. He earned NBA All-Rookie Team honors and was named to the 1980 NBA Eastern Conference All-Star team.

    Dennis Rodman: Honors: NBA champion (1989, '90, '96, '97, '98); Defensive Player of the Year (1990, '91); All-NBA Third Team (1992, '95); All-Defensive First Team (1989, '90, '91, '92, '93, '95, '96); Two-time NBA All-Star (1990, '92).

    Scottie Pippen:participated in postseason play in 16 of his 17 NBA seasons, Member of the NBA All-Defensive Team from 1991-2000 (First Team member seven times) Selected as one of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History in 1996 Seven-time NBA All Star (1990, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996 and 1997)
    1994 All-Star Game MVP Made All-NBA seven straight years (1992-1998)

    Horace Grant: Earned NBA All-Defensive Second Team honors in 1992-93, 1993-94, 1994-95 and 1995-96. Played in the 1994 NBA All-Star Game.

    Ron Harper: From 86-94 averaged 21.0 ppg. A member of the Lakers 2000 NBA championship team, starting in all six games of the Finals and averaging 10.8 ppg. Named to the 1986-87 NBA All-Rookie Team, averaging 22.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg and 4.8 apg, and was the runner-up in NBA Rookie of the Year balloting

    Like those players or not. They were all very good.
     
  17. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    There is no all-star big man on your list. Second, Jordan was the one on his team to receive the the constant double team, Kobe benefits from his teamate being double teamed.

    Do you honestly feel Kobe would have a ring with with just an all-star small forward on his team?
     
  18. Drexlerfan22

    Drexlerfan22 Member

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    Umm, buddy, the Bulls didn't start winning until the early 90s, which was right after the '88 & '89 expansions, making for one of the most watered-down talent pools in history. Only 2 more teams have been added since (Vancover & Toronto in 1995).

    PhiSlammaJamma already reviewed this, but as he said, Jordan had:
    Pippen: One of the greatest ever, period
    Horace Grant: Do-everything, borderline all-star PF
    Dennis Rodman: Possibly the greatest rebounder EVER
    Ron Harper: 20+ per game scorer before he came to the Bulls
    Toni Kukoc: One of few ever who could play ALL FIVE positions off the bench
    Craig Hodges: One of the greatest shooters ever
    Steve Kerr: Another one of the greatest shooters ever

    Sure, Shaq is better than anything Jordan had, but the Lakers have never had the depth Jordan did.

    Jordan was a bigger *******, whom didn't need to understand the game because he only played his way, and Phil Jackson molded the team around his freelancing. Not being a very good 3-point shooter, Jordan would have struggled to find a satisfactory role in a Shaq-centered system just as Kobe is doing, and he likely would not would have developed half as quickly. Why do you think Kobe wants to go to the Clippers? So he can play his way, as Jordan did.
     
  19. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Pippen one of the greatest players ever is a joke.

    Jordan scored 63 points on one of the greatest teams ever, the 86 Celtics and almost single-handedly beat that team by himself. When he was 24.
     
  20. Drexlerfan22

    Drexlerfan22 Member

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    Hmm... one of only 2 players to ever lead their team in all 5 major statistical categories. Yeah, I'm laughin' my ass off.

    Pippen's playoff record w/o Jordan: 6-4.
    Jordan's playoff record w/o Pippen: 2-9.
    # of games the Bulls slipped in the regular season when Jordan retired and was replaced by Pete Myers: 2.

    Wow, almost!? Well I know I'm impressed!
     

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