Okay- Sorry to bring this topic up agian if it has already been discussed, but I havent seen it in a while. Anyway, was watching POlitically Incorrect last night and they were talking about how a prisoner who is now about 34 is being put to death for a crime he committed when he was 17. Of course, the libertarian on the show had to bring up..."I think it is really strange how we teach people in this country not to kill by killing them." Everybody in the audience clapped and went yahoo for a second (although Maher got mad cause they werent really discussing the right and wrong of the death penalty just if it should be given to a 17 year old). So, people who give me that argument are dumb in my opinion. It is an illogical argument. When your child asks you why is it bad to kill people, you dont tell the child because if you do they put you in prison and kill you. We dont use taht as a tool to teach. IT has nothing to do with teaching. You tell your child because it is wrong to kill, killing people takes away a loved one from someone else, takes away their freedom to be alive. That is why killing people is wrong, not becuase it gets you in trouble. That said, I beleive in the death penalty as a form of punishment, certainly as a detractor to keep people from murdering others, but maybe most importantly, because no matter how minute the chance is, the possibility that that killer could get out again and kill again is one that we cant and shouldnt entertain. I also believe that it is ok to kill teenagers, if it is ok for them to rape and pillage and murder. What do you guys think of the death penalty? I think it is definitely a good, right, and neccessary step to take in many cases. ------------------ Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women!
It would be nice to have another alternative like life without parole. I believe that states that offer both have a lower crime rate than states that just offer the death penalty. ------------------ "I'll drop kick those f*ckin' dogs if they come anywhere near me." visit www.swirve.com
I really hate getting into this one based on past arguments, but I'll state my opinion one more time. I am against it in all forms because I simply believe in the sacredness of all life and that we, as humans, do not have the right to take life no matter what the circumstance. I know it is not a popular belief and I know that I am probably in the minority, but it is something I believe in very strongly because of my own spiritual beliefs. It is the same reason I do not eat meat and even attempt to throw bugs out of my house rather than kill them. I've tried debating the merits of this issue before but it is a very emotional issue for many out there and I prefer to just refer to how I feel as a belief rather than try to justify it through statistics or anecdotes. Everyone is certainly free to agree or disagree. We are all free to choose and I respect everyone's opinion on this subject. ------------------ Save Our Rockets and Comets SaveOurRockets.com
I posted a thread earlier about why I believe that the death penalty is justified in some cases. After reading several responses, it made me realize that I was for the death penalty more for vengeance than for deterrence. Maybe it should not be up to us to decide if the convicted murderer should die or be given life in prison. I believe it should be up to the victim's family. The option should be there. If the victim's family feels that the death penalty is not the answer, then the convicted murderer should get life in prison. I am pro victim's rights. Does that make me a Republican? ------------------ [This message has been edited by Smokey (edited August 23, 2000).]
There are some cases where the penalty seems like the only just punishment given the crime committed, but I think we use it way too often. There are just some acts that are so heinous that death seems the only fitting penalty. But I think this state would be better off if we had a life without parole punishment and used it for those cases where the crime was not nearly so heinous. Of course, we do live in a state where some people are allowed to kill others (Dustin Camp, I'm looking in your direction) without having to even go to jail, so it isn't as if we're involved in overkill (no pun intended) in all of our cases. In the end, I don't know that I would abolish the death penalty, but I certainly make it rare (if it were up to me). ------------------
Check out Bill O'Reilly's <A HREF="http://www.foxnews.com/channel/oreilly_view.sml">alternative to the death penalty.</A> I like it. If we created our own little Siberia, people would think twice before killing others. ------------------ WE WILL WATCH THEM FALL... Next year
Rather than discussing the morality behind the death penalty, I rather think it should not exist simply because of the mistakes we have made over the years. Even though recent scientific discoveries have made it possible to analyse the real criminal with better accuracy, I still believe there is a large room for error. I just can't believe how often I see that innocent people are put to death or nearly escaped it to later be found not guilty due to new evidence. Imagine how many innocent people we have killed in the past. I can't bear with that idea. Right now, I would probably agree with Jeff. I believe we hold no rights over another man's life. However, I don't know how I would react if I was ever faced with the situation. I would probably want such a person to suffer for the rest of eternity. ------------------ Nederland 2002 Qualifying Campaign (Damn those penalties!!!) Houston Rockets Space Center- Not just another ClutchCity.NET clone. We're that and more!
I look at this on two different levels: 1. Moral. I am a little shakey on this because I feel that morality is generally relative. I personally could never directly kill someone or cause the death of someone (in other words, being a juror or judge, etc annd giving the DP). That is my personal beleif.I could also never vote for anything/one in favor. I try to keep it only at a personal level because that is the most honest. I do feel that some people are genetically more prone to evil, but it is not my personal place to decide their fate. 2. Practical implementation. I am most opposed to the DP as a universal policy in this area. This is because of mistakes. One person that is killed by mistake is just the same as a common murder - does the state then get punished? There are so many proven cases of wrongfully convicted. So many factors - racism, classism, etc. I do not trust people to wield this power. Same reason I do not trust the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction - supposedly just a deterrent, but can be abused. That's it. ------------------ Talking to a dead hare about art
"I do feel that some people are genetically more prone to evil, but it is not my personal place to decide their fate." You DON'T decide their fate, they do. If they didn't murder people they would not be sentenced to death. You, me, the judge, the jury, etc... should feel no remorse, WE were not the ones who willingly murdered an innocent person, we are the ones administering justice. The murderer is the one who decided his fate. Interesting fiction about an "American Siberia" I can't say that I would oppose that as ANOTHER form of punishment. It is to bad this country is full of people who are more concerned with the criminals rights than they are the victims and something of that nature will never happen. Plain and simple, the Death Penalty is a necessary punishment to safeguard innocent people. There are many a criminal who has KILLED and MURDERED again after receiving life without parole. There has yet to be ONE executed murderer who has gone on to murder again. I think that we owe it to society to not give these people a chance to prey on innocent people, again. Also you guys throwing around this idea that a bunch of innocent people have been executed, please provide a link. The subhumans who are receiving the DP, aren't the guy who was just "in the wrong place at the wrong time" These are the serial rapists/murders, career criminals and people who rampage our society without remorse. These are not "innocent victims" These things are the LOWEST common denominator of our species. Read up on the people who are on death row, it is absolutely absurd the acts of violence these people have carried out on their victims. These are not people who deserve our sympathy, these are not people who deserve the chance to terrorize another human. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Ty_Webb (edited August 24, 2000).]
If you have an actual Life Without Parole sentence, those people aren't going to murder again. That's the whole point, to never let those people out of jail. We could point out that at least one person who was sentenced to die killed several more people (Kenneth McDuff). Does that mean that the punishment itself does no good in preventing that person from murdering again? No, it means that the punishment wasn't carried out and that allowed McDuff to kill again. If we had Life Without Parole, those people would be just as unable to kill again. ------------------
What would prosecuters do in a case like this if the DP was not an option? give this guy DOUBLE LWOP?????? Two INNOCENT people would be alive today if this animal would have been punished properly. LWOP does NOT work! ---------------- In Star City, prosecutors are once again seeking the death penalty for Kenneth Williams, the prison inmate accused of killing a Grady farmer shortly after escaping from the Cummins Unit in October 1999. Jury selection in Williams' capital murder trial begins today. At the time of his escape, Williams was serving a life sentence for the murder of university cheerleader Dominique Hurd. Prosecutors had argued for the death penalty in that case, but jurors couldn't agree on a sentence. Moments after learning he had received life in prison instead of death, Williams turned to Hurd's family and taunted them. "You thought I was going to die, didn't you?" he jeered. Then he laughed. 3 weeks after that trial ended, Williams was not only on the loose, but the lead suspect in the shooting death of 57-year-old Cecil Boren. Prosecutors vowed to seek the death penalty yet again. The high-profile case is expected to draw a large crowd of spectators -- Boren's family, residents of the close-knit Grady community and prison officials as well. "We have said from the beginning that we believe Kenneth Williams committed horrible crimes and we wanted him prosecuted as severely as possible. Now we go to court and see what a trial jury has to say," said Dina Tyler, spokesman for the Arkansas Department of Correction. Cecil Boren's family didn't want to comment on the eve of the trial. Boren, a retired assistant warden who once worked at Cummins, was doing yardwork when he was killed on Oct. 3, 1999. His wife, Genie, was at church. Williams, 21, is believed to have escaped on that busy Sunday morning by stowing away in a hog-slop tank, which was regularly towed by a tractor through the prison's gates, far beyond the razorwire-topped fence and guard towers, to a hog lot. Prison officials think the convicted killer then made his way to the Borens' farm by crawling along the many irrigation ditches that bisect the agricultural area. The ease with which the inmate apparently fled Cummins led to the firing of 2 guards, whom prison officials say failed to follow policies that would have prevented such an escape. 3 other correctional officers were put on probation because they didn't report a phone tip from a caller who claimed to have seen Williams driving around Pine Bluff that afternoon. His absence wasn't noticed until a routine 6 p.m. head count. State police investigators contend that after Williams reached the Boren farm, he killed Cecil Boren, donned the farmer's clothing and took off in his truck. When he was captured the next day in Missouri, Williams had several of Boren's guns, some jewelry and several other items reported missing from the family's home. During the 20-mile, high-speed chase that led to Williams' apprehension, a motorist was killed in a collision. He was 24. ------------ There is but ONE way to 100% guarantee that people like this don't murder again, and that is the death penalty. There is no way of denying that. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Ty_Webb (edited August 24, 2000).]
I would rather not repeat what I've said on this subject. I will say that I somewhat agree with Jeff but probably more so with rimbaud. I would like to add something though. If you are against the death penalty, there can be no way you can possibly rationalize also being pro-choice (pro-abortion). ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem. DREAMer's Rocket Page
The dude escaped from prison. Even if he had been sentenced to death, he might've escaped from prison and killed again. It's not as if he would've already have been executed three weeks after being sentenced. We've had people escape from death row in the past and they could've committed crimes while they were out of prison. Does that mean that the Death Penalty doesn't work? The fact that this man escaped and killed again has nothing to do with his sentence nor does it mean that Life Without Parole doesn't work (and this doesn't say he had life without parole. It simply says he got a life sentence. The two are not the same necessarily. If a person gets life in Texas, they will be eligible for parole at some point. In the not-too-distant past, they were eligible for parole after 25 years.) ------------------
mrpaige. Once he WAS executed the chances of him murdering again are what? If left in prison this person has SHOWN that he is capable of murdering again. Why do you think his life is more important than those of his potential victims? ------------------
DREAMer, you are entirely wrong. I am anti-capital punishment for the most part. However, I am 100% pro-choice. You know why? Because I don't believe that a fetus is a human being until it is viable outside the woman's womb. Why didn't you state that there is no way that those who are pro-capital punishment are also pro-life? That's more of a contradiction than the way I believe. Personally, I'd never want my significant other to abort a baby, but it's her choice, not mine. ------------------ "I'll drop kick those f*ckin' dogs if they come anywhere near me." visit www.swirve.com
But he's going to sit on death row for a decade if he had been sentenced to death. You're saying that if a person is on death row, they cannot escape and kill someone. You're blaming the life sentence for these deaths, yet the man could've been sentenced to death and still escaped and killed someone. It wasn't the lack of a death sentence that allowed him to kill again. It was the fact that they didn't carry out his punishment as prescribed (life in prison). They let him escape (which is very rare, but they screwed up and could've screwed up for a death row inmate, too). If they have Life Without Parole and actually follow through with the sentence, he won't kill anyone, either. A death penalty doesn't work either if they don't actually follow through with the sentence. Why do you have such a bloodlust that you want to see people killed by the state in great numbers, even folks who probably wouldn't kill again if they weren't executed. We can't lump all death row inmates into the same category as Kenneth McDuff or other serial killers. (Speaking of, it was sloppy police work that let a serial killer like J. Kelly Pinkerton kill again. Since the police were to blame for Pinkerton's second murder, I suppose that the police system doesn't work, either. Perhaps we need to all just strap on a six-shooter and fend for ourselves.) ------------------
"Not letting him escape would've been a big help, too." NO prison has been escape proof, that is a fact. "Even if he had gotten the death penalty, he could still get out and kill again if he escapes" BUT, once he is executed he is no longer a threat to society, EVER. "Unless you suggest just shooting the offenders right on the courthouse steps right after the trial." Nice hyperbole, where did I say I wanted to do that? I am completely in fair of a due process and believe it is needed to safeguard against the chance of an innocent life being taken by wrongful execution. "Keeping the offenders in jail works just as well." How is that? Again name me ONE person who has gone onto murder again after being executed? "And what about for other crimes? I mean, many criminals are repeat offenders. Perhaps we should just execute every criminal rather than risk they commit another crime. Drunk driving? " Where in the world does this come from? Enjoy riding the Slippery slope I guess. Again nowhere have I advocated killing just "anyone." I am for executing those people who willfully and remorsefully take the life of an innocent person. I am not talking about the case where a man kills another man in a bar fight, or a drunk driver, or someone with no criminal record kills someone, etc… I by NO MEANS am an advocate of executing just anyone, please point out where did. "Like I said, I think there should be the death penalty for some people who committed especially heinous crimes." We agree there, and those are the type of people who are on death row. Do you even know what it takes to get the Death penalty? You claim that "we're executing people who didn't commit crimes that rise to anywhere near that level." That is just not accurate, do you have ANY idea what percent of murders actually receive the death penalty? Do you know what EVERYONE of the 12 jurors has to agree with before someone is given the death penalty? This is not a punishment that is haphazardly thrown around. Since 1967, there has been one execution for every 1600 murders, or 0.06%. There have been approximately 560,000 murders and 358 executions from 1967-1996 FBI's Uniform Crime Report (UCR) & Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS). As you can see the death penalty I used for the worst of the worst criminals. If you want to read about the type of people who are on death row and the crimes they committed follow this link: http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/Pending/00/aug00.htm (this is just for the people scheduled to be executed in August) "But he's going to sit on death row for a decade if he had been sentenced to death. You're saying that if a person is on death row, they cannot escape and kill someone. You're blaming the life sentence for these deaths, yet the man could've been sentenced to death and still escaped and killed someone." Again, once he is put to rest what are the chances that he will kill again? "Why do you have such a bloodlust that you want to see people killed by the state in great numbers, even folks who probably wouldn't kill again if they weren't executed. " Bloodlust? Look in the mirror hypocrite, you said you were in favor of the DP in certain cases as well does that mean YOU have a bloodlust? Of course not, you want those animals put away so they no longer can kill and torture again and to see that they are punished for their crimes accordingly. That is NOT bloodlust, that is justice. ------------------
