http://www.realgm.com/src_cba_salary_articles.php?artid=salary_increases Here's an interesting article that I found at RealGM. Webber is going to be expensive. Do we really want him or are there other options? Getting him will tie up our cap space for 6 years & leave us no flexibility, unless we can dump Cato/Walt/? in a sign & trade for him. I can't see Sacramento taking those two & screwing up their cap space. Anyway, I thought that this was a pretty good article that explains the cost of possible FA scenarios. Any thoughts? ------------------
I'm absolutely positive Webber will not leave Sacramento with nothing to show for his departure. If Webber leaves, that pretty much means Divac will retire. i think they would take Cato off our hands in a sign n trade. Also, we can give them Walt, who will be a free agent at the end of THAT season. That about makes it perfect. They'd acquire a C and 5+ million worth of cap space to go shopping the following season. I know it's nothing to party about for Sacramento, but they'd be getting SOME compensation. What could the Knicks POSSIBLY give them? Not Spree. they don't want an overpaid/aging/tied-up-long-term/oft-injured Glen Rice. Which leaves Allan Houston, but there's no way Allan would leave Eastern Conference contenders to play with a team that will earn 7th spot AT BEST WITH him. If the Knicks trade camby, there'd be no one to play C, and Webber would never play C. I really don't see a deal with the Knicks. The only cost Houston will have to pay is losing Mo, and possibly Shandon (i doubt it). The only thing that worries me is Sacramento, cause if they somehow win the title this year, there's no way he's leaving. Even if they don't, he's incredibly impressed with the team. Here's what I see happening IF he leaves: -Houston sends Walt + Cato + 1st round pick to Sac for Webber. -Hakeem sees HUGE contenders and re-signs for 4.5 million exception. Yes, we'll have it because after Webber signs, we won't be below the cap. -Shandon accepts the early bird he earned. He didn't earn any more than that, and I doubt anyone else will give him more. Plus, like Hakeem, he sees the word CONTENDER printed on the jerseys. Our line-up would be: C - Hakeem PF - Webber SF - Shandon SG - Mobley PG - Francis Inside presence? We rival the Twin Towers. Backourt tandem? We have the best. Rebounding? Hakeem, Webber, and the best rebounding backcourt in the league. Defense? Hakeem, Webber, Shandon. There's nothing we can't do. BUT, with the addition of Webber, I see a tiny chemistry problem. We finsh 4th, tied with 5th. But It's all a dynasty after that. IF Webber suddenly shows a decline of form, or he's unhappy, or we're unhappy, Portland are always glad to take Superstars without rings off our hands. The future is bright, whether we make tha Playoffs or not. ------------------
If you're going to spend you money, then spend it on a superstar in his prime (i.e. Webber) instead of spreading that money across a couple of good to average players. Besides, if we sign Webber using only cap space and make no other roster moves except for draft picks, then we'd be right at the cap next year. Williams and Rogers contracts expire after next season. That frees up $7M right there. Assuming the cap increases by at least 12%, then we would have the ability to be under the cap again next off season. Besides, not having cap space doesn't neccessarily mean that you can't acquire new players. Look at Portland and NY. They've been way over the cap for years and they're both been very active when it comes to acquiring players. ------------------
Hakeem sees HUGE contenders and re-signs for 4.5 million exception. Yes, we'll have it because after Webber signs, we won't be below the cap. Sane, My understanding was that once you lose the exception, you don't get it back even if you subsequently go back over the cap. I've emailed Larry Coon to get a clarification and I'll post his response. ------------------
I don't know for sure, but if I had to guess, then I'd say Aug. 1. That's one of the things that I asked Larry Coon to clarify. ------------------
If Sacramento wins it all this year, great for them, but bad for Chris Webber. He's looking for an excuse not to spend the rest of his youth in Whiteville. Two or three of those players will be retired or on the downside in a couple years. He likes his teammates and the organization, sure, but sometimes it just isn't enough. Had Shaq stayed in Orlando, what would have happened? Maybe a couple'a rings (maybe not). I am hoping for Sacramento stumbling, though. Makes it easier. ------------------
There's no black people in Sacramento? ------------------ www.swirve.com...The reason Al Gore invented the internet.
If you use an exception while over the cap, and then renounce Olajuwon to go under the cap, does the player you signed with the exception then count against the cap? Hydra, Yes, all salary counts against the cap. The exception just allows you to exceed the cap. So, if we're over the cap on July 1, then sign a free agent with our exception, that boosts our payroll by the amount of the exception ($4.5M). Then we subsequently renounce Hakeem, his cap hold number comes off the cap, but we now have $4.5M less in cap space. Does that make sense? ------------------
Yes, thank you. ------------------ "We messed with the Bull, and we got the horns." -- Larry Brown "quote" from AirBullard.com
As NIKEstrad has reminded us over-n-over again, all these Webber deals can happen the same day Hakeem is renounced or signed. The only way we lose our exceptions is if we renounce Hakeem before using the exceptions. I know that is assumed to be the order of events, but it doesn't have to be. For instance, Sane's scenario is a sign-n-trade. We don't have to renounce Hakeem before a sign-n-trade? We can just sign him to a bird. I haven't run the numbers, but it seems if we sign Hakeem to a Bird at around the number Sane suggests ($4.5m), we will be around $5m below the cap....not far enough to lose our exceptions. We then use this cap room to pull off a sign-n-trade. Hell, my guess is without running the numbers and looking at Davo's Salary Cap page is that we can use a Bird on Hakeem, then package Mo, Cato and some 1st rounders for Webber, all without needing a 3rd team to pull it off, since our cap room can absorb the difference. Anyone care to propose a sign-n-trade after using a Bird on Hakeem? Realistically though, there is no way I'm not offering Webber the max. Thus, the above scenario would have to be done nearly simultaneous, *after* Webber and Sac agree in principle.
We'll have a midlevel exception to start the offseason, and we can use it. Before Olajuwon is renounced. BUT, it would just cut into our cap space after the renouncing, pretty pointless if you ask me, unless there was a player on your own team closing in on bird rights, and would lose them if he was renounced. Basically, let's suppose we want Player X. We can sign him August 1, before renouncing Hakeem to the mid-level for ~4.5 mill. But that's just the same as renouncing Hakeem, and signing him to a standard contract at 4.5 mill. Another place I saw it explained is that all the exceptions count against the cap for everyone, and teams under the cap "renounce" the exceptions and have pure cap space instead. If it's a sign and trade, and it's even enough that we can take on Webber without making any renouncements, all the better. Perhaps threaten Sacramento to lose him outright, then some sort of deal involving Cato and another 6 mill (cough, ahem, Walt). We could have Webber, Olajuwon at his 16 mill if he wanted, AND a 4.5 mill exception at our disposal as well as the million dollar one. heypee-In your proposal, I'm assuming by "Birding" Hakeem, you're signing him at less than his current 16 mill, (like 5 mill or so) to give us the room to absorb the extra space needed for CWebb. Remember, you've got all of July to figure those kinds of things out. ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure.
Sane, Here's the Larry Coon's explanation: -On July 1st the exceptions are created. Unless a team is under the cap by more than t he combined amount of all exceptions (Median, Mid-Level and any trade exception the team might have), they receive a mid-level exception. -After July 1, if a team falls under the cap by more than the combined amount of their exceptions, then they lose their exceptions. -Once an exception is lost, it can not be regained by going back over the cap. So, to put this in the perspective of the Rockets: -July 1 we will be over the cap because of current salaries and the cap hold on Olajuwon, Bullard, Taylor and Langhi. This means that we will receive a mid-level exceptin on July 1. - If the Rockets wish to sign a free agent they will have to renounce Olajuwon and possibly other players in order to get below the cap. This will put us below the cap (by more than the combined amount of our exceptions), so we'd lose our mid-level exception. - If we then sign Webber and say a veteran minimum player, then we'd be over the cap. We would not, however, get our mid-level exception back. ------------------
RM95, Sacto is about 50% minorities. aelliot, If you use an exception while over the cap, and then renounce Olajuwon to go under the cap, does the player you signed with the exception then count against the cap? ------------------ "We messed with the Bull, and we got the horns." -- Larry Brown "quote" from AirBullard.com
yeah NIKE, You need to "Bird" Hakeem at around $4m to not lose the exceptions...if other's cap numbers are correct. This should leave us with enough cap room to work a Mo/Cato and necessary 1st rounders for a Webber sign-n-trade, and possibly without needing a 3rd team. Webber wouldn't be getting a huge raise, correct. So his BYC status is negligible (50% or previous salary...correct). The Kings would have no problem with the sign-n-trade, and we use our $4-5m after Birding Hakeem to to make the trade work. That still leaves us with a middle class to find another big man for the bench. ....dream on. Boy would Mo' hate being traded with Cato. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited March 29, 2001).]
Alot of ya'll seem to be forgetting that Webber is a FREE agent next year, and we will be far enough under the cap to give him the max. Therefore, we don't have to do a sign and trade for him. Sac would want a sign and trade, but if Webber wants to come here he can. Sign and trades usually happen when a team is not far enough under the cap to sign a player to the max. And there is no way in hell the Rockets will give up a first rounder in a sign and trade. ------------------
I think most people realize that he is a free agent. The reason for doing a sign and trade is so we can keep our cap space and dump guys we don't want so we can sign up someone else. The only reason I could see Sac taking Walt or Cato or both is b/c of the "it's better than nothing" theory. ------------------ If the 3 pointer was banned by the nba, No amount of money would make him stay. Air Bullard, Air Buuuuuulllll, Air Buuuullll Can't stop Bull. [This message has been edited by Band Geek Mobster (edited March 29, 2001).]
Heypee-You don't lose the exception, it just counts against the cap. If we wanted to use the cap room to sign Webber (or absorb), we'd have to have that much left under the cap AFTER Cwebb to be able to use or exceptions. OK, I'm assuming your numbers put us around 10 mill under if we flat out renounced Dream, or 6 mill under if we signed him for 4 mill, correct? I think you're thinking that at around 6 mill, if we don't go under our combined exceptions, we'll have cap AND exceptions. We'll only get one or the other. ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure.
But a free agent will still make more with a MAX salary by signing with his current club, or doing a sign-and-trade, rather than simply signing with another team. That's why Pippen, McGrady, and Grant Hill all were signed-and-traded to their new clubs (Rockets, Magic) even though those teams had plenty of cap room at the time. ------------------ I'm about to boldly go where many men have gone before.
