There seems to be mad speculation after what Cuttino said, and the previous rumors about Rudy coveting Lamar Odom. Of course the rumors also said the Odom deal didn't go through earlier because they wanted Cuttino, the irony? With the uncertainty of Yao, and now if we can't get records on his past medical problems with his ankles and our doctors can't examine him, for the first time, I think I would be against drafting Ming. We know the Clips covet Williams, and I think they would part with Odom and the #8 for our #1, and maybe even throw in KT for the #12 too. Odom, #8, #12 for KT, #1 We Package the #8 and #12 to get Nick Tskitshivili if we can't get him before eight, then at #15 we get Nachbar. TEAM! Francis Mooch Cat Francis Odom Nachbar Taylor Tskitshivili Cato Griffin Imagine Odom rebounding to a streaking Francis and Cat, creating for them and having the Rockets implement a moving offense and not a 1 on 1, isolation one. Francis Mooch Cat Francis Odom Nachbar Taylor Tskitshivili Cato Griffin VERSUS: Francis Mooch Cat Francis Nachbar KT Taylor Griffin Ming Cato I think scenario #1 gives us a deeper more dangerous team. Everyone seems to be worrying constantly about Shaq, but no one can stop him and it will take us a few years to get to where we have to worry about Shaq, and by that time he will be older, retired and we will be peaking. Would You guys do that deal? It seems to be the most attractive one on the table.
Nope, The bottom line is that Ming is better then Odom, so why would you trade away for a lesser player. Ming brings so much to the Rockets, defense, rebounding, and a humble attitude, things this team needs desperatly. Once Ming starts rebounding all of Cat and Francis' missed shots and passes them back out, and then shutting down the middle on defense, Cat and Francis will be all aboard the Orient Express. NEVER TRADE THE NUMBER 1 PICK !!!! DaDakota
It seems like a good idea at first, but what happeneds when all those contracts run up? We cannot sign Francis, Odom, Tskitshivili, and Griffin Max contracts. Francis Mooch Cat Francis Nachbar KT Taylor Griffin Ming Cato I would take this team over the other, just to make sure that I would have a team that I could actually pay for, and would be able to stick together for years to come.
I'm an Odom proponent, but I would vote no. As posters like heypartner have pointed out, aside from Ming's talent and potential, ask yourself what is easier: A. Draft Ming, and obtain a SF via #15, trading up from #15, etc. OR B. Obtain Odom, try to find a talented big man @ #8 or #12. I vote for A. The only other big man that fills the Rockets need for a physical presence in the frontcourt, particualrly at C, is Maybyner 'I LOVE to bang' Hilario, and there are already rumblings about him being LONG GONE by #8. (I wouldn't be surprised if he went as high as #4 to the 'soft', C-less Grizz.) Granted, a player like Butler or Tskitishvili may be available @ #8, which is very intriguing, but I'd rather the Rockets just try to swing a deal for the #8 pick than deal away a chance to draft Ming.
After all the reports of teams willing to give up an arm and a leg for the #1 pick, there's no way I would trade it for Odom, even if they add the #8 and #12. The only way I would trade the pick to the Clips is if they gave up Brand instead of Odom. Odom makes this team playoff contenders. Ming, if he comes even close to his potential, makes this team a championship contender.
IMHO, Odom + 8 + 12 is not enough to give up the #1 pick. Although this is close, I think the Rockets could do even better. We are talking #1 pick and the interest in Jay Williams is high. Consider: 1) With #15 + KT + change, we could probably land an experienced SF in a trade. 2) There are good SF's available with the MCE. (Rashard can't be the only SF who thinks Francis, Cat, EG & Ming is a good nucleus). So which is better: Cato + Odom or Ming + the best of Ty Nesby, Lee Nailon, Walter McCarty, Bruce Bowen (if he would "defect"), or George Lynch, What would the Cavs take for Lamond Murray? Would the Hornets trade George Lynch for #15 + KT+ fill? Would Krause take some combination of 15 + KT + Collier + fill + release of the Drew obligation for ERob and a guarantee we would take Ming? My long winded point is that there are many SF options but precious few big man options. Take Ming unless the offer is to good to resist.
Sometimes I wonder if people who bash the "trading the pick" ideas ever really pay attention to what we are saying. DaDakota, how can you be so sure Ming is a better player than Odom? He hasn't played a single minute of NBA ball and he sucked against the USA and the rest of the World during the Olympics. So far, he hasn't proven to me that he is going to be a better player than Odom. As for off the court issues, I think it is easier for a guy to get over a chronic habbit than it is to deal with a guy who has a Communist govt. as part of his posse/baggage. By the way, nobody is talking about trading the #1 for Odom straigth up, the deal in this thread is the #1 and KT for Odom, #8, and #12. That gives us a talented multi faceted SF who has proven he is a good player plus 3 picks that we can use to stockpile some good young players or move up for a higher pick or even bring in a veteran or two. New Jack, most of the teams that want the #1 pick are trying to get Jay Williams. Except for maybe the Knicks, who offered us bull crap for the pick, there isn't a team that is begging us for that pick so that they can get Ming. If we do trade the pick, then the Bulls get Ming, and that's no problem to us because they're in the East. And I doubt they will meet us in the Finals.
But what I'm saying is, teams are willing to give up an arm and a leg for the pick so I think we can get a much better offer then Odom/8/12. Offers that might involve big men, instead of another small ball player in Odom.
Oski, I concede that Ming is a bit of a risk, but, we have seen what Odom can do, and I for one am less then impressed. Why do you think the Clippers are offering Odom instead of Miles? Because they know that Odom is a good player, but will never be a great player. Ming, IMHO, has a chance to be a dominant player. If all he does year is rebound, play defense and toss the outlet then the Rockets will be vastly improved. Also, Rudy is a better coach with big people, and I feel that Ming will be a great player. Picks in the first round are inherently risky....Turcsan anyone? So, why not take the sure thing (Ming) and then take a solid project at 15. We don't need more picks we need better...TALLER...players. DaDakota
No, but I'd think about Brand, Odom, #8, #12, the Clip's 2003 1st round pick for #1, #15, Griffin, KT and any filler.
And you know this how? Videotape of him against Chinese pro-players is your proof of this? WOW. That is a very sure opinion of somebody who hasn't played a minute of NBA basketball.
I can't say I know anything more of Yao Ming's value as a player than the next guy; certainly he;d get the team on TV. But I will say Yao's gonna be exhausted playing year-round and, what's more, even more susceptible to injuries. Everyone wants a piece of Ming. The thing is, What is Donald Sterling gonna do? Will he continue to run low-rent players through the rinse cycle, or will he finish what he started? Will he pay his players? Assuming Sterling trades Odom (potential max) and Maggette (er, maybe worth $4 mil per year, and that's being generous, even by today's market value), he would still have Williams, Miles, Brand, and maybe Kandi with max deals. He won't pay that. He just won't. He's never paid anyone the max, ever. Even if he's changed his ways, he'd still have one gigantic payroll, more than most owners would be willing to take on. I would do the deal with the Clippers. Odom + 8 + 12 + Maggette for #1, KT and Rice is a good deal. If we can squeeze more out of 'em, fine. People keep downplaying Odom's value. With Brand and Miles and even Q coming on, plus injuries, he got pushed out a bit. Never mind the drug thing. The organization can pimp-slap him around on that issue, get him to wake up, if he hasn't already. At least we're not talking about the Mitchell Wiggins-Lewis Lloyd-John Lucas drug of choice.
I haven't heard a serious trade scenario that would have me trading the first pick yet. There is a lot of upside to drafting first, regardless of who you pick. I can only think of 5-10 players in the league I would even consider trading the pick for and most of those are unattainable.
Who is responsible for "coaching" the Rocket's guards? Rudy and Larry were both big men. It would be nice to have an Assitant Coach with league experience who was a guard and recognized as a good defensive player. T.R. Dunn? Lionel Hollins? Nate McMillan?
How does anyone know how good Ming is, he has yet to play against really good players. The same can be said for all players in the draft, but at least they have played college competition.
I saw this suggestion on another board and was wondering what ya'll thought. It originated, I believe, from a Bulls fan afraid of being stuck with Yao at #2. Essentially, trade away the #1 to LAC; then trade part of that package to Chicago for the #2. We end up with Yao at #2, but get some free stuff for giving Jay Williams to LAC. Chicago gets out of the Yao Ming gamble and cuts their losses by trading for a vets. So, for example, the Odom + Maggette + #8 for Rice and #1: We'd ship Odom and the #8 on to Chicago for the #2 and trade fodder, leaving us with Yao, Maggette, and some baggage that may be a bit more helpful than Rice. We, in essence, keep our pick but get paid a little compensation for taking it at #2 instead of #1. Specific incarnations of the idea may be more or less profitable than this. The most obvious problem is that Krause might be too happy for an excuse to take Yao (in which case he'll have 2 starting centers, but that's his problem), and no deal will be possible. Also, Dada, I think I've seen the reason we're on opposite sides of the Yao-Odom debate. You think Odom will be good but not great while I think he'll be great. No wonder you wouldn't want to trade the pick for him.
I agree that there is always risk when talking about the #1 overall, and that people magnify the problems of the projected top pick, but with Ming it seems to be more than just the usual problems. If we needed a point guard, I doubt there would be as many people on this board against drafting Jay Williams as there are people against Ming. To me, Jay Williams is the best player in this draft and we know he will succeed at the next level because he played great against Team USA before the Olympics. You know who was on that team? Kidd and Payton, the 2 best overall PG's in the NBA. At the same time, guys like Nowitzki, Stojakavic, and Gasol didn't have much contact with NBA or american players and they have been succesful. But the Euro leagues are tougher than the Chinese league. Also, the entaglement with the Chinese govt gives this guy baggage like no possible #1 has ever had before him. Basically, we need to build a team to win a Championship. Before this team can win a title, they need to go to the playoffs and get their butts kicked. That now famous Doug Collins quote comes to mind, the one about how all Champions need to have their hearts broken before they can win a title. Well, if Ming works out, this is a playoff team, if he doesn't, then we are stuck with another overpaid Center and we will be in the lottery again. If we trade the pick for an established player and other picks, there is no question we have a playoff team. These guys need playoff experience now while they are young, if Ming is a bust, and there's a 50/50 chance he is, then the whole rebuilding process will be set back at least another 2 years. I'd rather have this team be in the playoffs for sure next year so they can learn what the playoffs are about while they're still young. You know, if Kandiman could be included in a sign and trade, hopefully that means we dump Cato, would you guys still want to draft Ming?
One word for this board, "WISHY WASHY". A common word I use sometimes toward my girlfriend. Today she wants Louis Vuitton, tomorrow she hates Louis Vuitton. Today she loves the food at Champs, tomorrow she would rather eat McDonalds then Champs. She is "WISHY WASHY", cannot make up her mind what she wants or needs Now look at this board, last year we were ALL jumping up and down about the possibility of adding Odom (at the trading deadline). Most were saying that Odom was the perfect fit for the Rockets and could help take us deep into the playoffs. But now he is not good enough for us. "WISHY WASHY" . Not even if they included Corey and 2 additional lottery picks. "WISHY WASHY". Regarding Odoms talent, some have said he is a good player but will never be a great player? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? The kid is only 22 years old. Odom usually gets labeled as a future-super star with unlimited potential by every reporter/scout/gm/player that I have heard talk about him. He is only on the trading block because Sterling cannot afford to (near) max 3 players this summer, and possibly 2 more next summer. They are desparate for a PG, and they have plenty of talented SF's. They will loose Odom next year, so he is expendable. Odoms pot deal is no big deal, its not like he was caught on crack. Look at Caron Butler, he was a crack head, and he has turned his life around. You would have a hard time finding one GM that would pass on Butler this draft. Bottom line is what will the Rockets do for the immeditate future? They all claimed they did not want any more projects next year (before winning the lottery), but now they might just take one. "WISHY WASHY" I am not sure if Odom will be the best deal out there (it will get crazy by draft night). Personally if we could wind up with Butler and an established big man (?), that would be hard to turn down. But Odom will be an impact player for the Rockets, no chance for bust.
I'd only consider it if Odom wasn't a liability. With the injury last year and being on the 2nd strike he is a severe liability. If Odom were in the same position as he was last offseason then it could be a viable trade idea. It would also have to come down to draft day when we see who is there at 8 and who would be left to pick from at 12. I think the idea of trading the #1, KT and #15 for Brand + 8 +12 would be more realistic. We could get a SF at #8 and a bigman at #12 to backup Cato. That would be a good young team for us. Doesn't make as much sense for the Clips, but then the Odom deal doesn't make as much sense for us (since the best players available at #8 and #12 will most likely be SF's....which will have already been filled by Odom).
