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The Biggest Flip-Flop In Political History

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by RocketMan Tex, Jul 11, 2006.

  1. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    John Kerry ain't got nothing on George W. Bush, now does he? :D

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/07/11/congress.guantanamo.ap/index.html

    White House: Detainees entitled to Geneva Convention protections

    Lawmakers to draft legislation in response to high court decision

    Tuesday, July 11, 2006; Posted: 1:24 p.m. EDT (17:24 GMT)

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Bush administration, called to account by Congress after the Supreme Court blocked military tribunals, said Tuesday that all detainees held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba and in all other U.S. military custody around the world are entitled to protections under the Geneva Conventions.

    White House spokesman Tony Snow said the policy, outlined in a new Defense Department memo, reflects the recent 5-3 Supreme Court decision blocking military tribunals set up by President Bush. That decision struck down the tribunals because they did not obey international law and had not been authorized by Congress. (Full story)

    The policy, described in a memo by Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England, appears to reverse the administration's earlier insistence that the detainees are not prisoners of war and thus not subject to the Geneva protections.

    The memo instructs recipients to ensure that all Defense Department policies, practices and directives comply with Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions governing the humane treatment of prisoners.

    "You will ensure that all DOD personnel adhere to these standards," England wrote.

    Word of the Bush administration's new stance came as the Senate Judiciary Committee opened hearings Tuesday on the Guantanamo issue -- which is testing unity among Republicans on Capitol Hill, with lawmakers trying to decide in an election season how military detainees should be tried and what their rights should be.

    Led by Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pennsylvania, the committee's hearing was the first of three this week planned by congressional panels. The House and Senate Armed Services committees also were conducting hearings.

    "We're not going to give the Department of Defense a blank check," said Specter told the hearing Tuesday.

    Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont, the committee's top Democrat, said "kangaroo court procedures" must be changed and any military commissions "should not be set up as a sham. They should be consistent with a high standard of American justice, worth protecting."

    The Senate is expected to take up legislation addressing the legal rights of suspected terrorists after the August recess -- timing that would push the issue squarely into the election season.

    Guantanamo has been a flash point for both U.S. and international debate over the treatment of detainees without trial and over allegations of torture, denied by U.S. officials. Even U.S. allies in the war on terrorism have criticized the facility and process.

    The camp came under worldwide condemnation after it opened more than four years ago, when pictures showed prisoners kneeling, shackled and being herded into wire cages. It intensified with reports of heavy-handed interrogations, hunger strikes and suicides.

    Snow: Not a policy reversal
    Snow insisted that all U.S. detainees have been treated humanely. Still, he said, "We want to get it right."

    "It's not really a reversal of policy," Snow asserted, calling the Supreme Court decision "complex."

    Under questioning from the committee, Daniel Dell'Orto, principal deputy general counsel at the Pentagon, said he believes the current treatment of detainees -- as well as the existing tribunal process -- already complies with Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions.

    "The memo that went out, it doesn't indicate a shift in policy," he said. "It just announces the decision of the court."

    "The military commission set up does provide a right to counsel, a trained military defense counsel and the right to private counsel of the detainee's choice," Dell'Orto said. "We see no reason to change that in legislation."

    Steven Bradbury, acting assistant attorney general of the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel, told the Senate hearing that the Bush administration would abide by the Supreme Court's ruling that a provision of the Geneva Conventions applies.

    But he acknowledged that the provision -- which requires humane treatment of captured combatants and requires trials with judicial guarantees "recognized as indispensable by civilized people" -- is ambiguous and would be hard to interpret.

    "The application of common Article 3 will create a degree of uncertainty for those who fight to defend us from terrorist attack," Bradbury said.

    Snow said efforts to spell out more clearly the rights of detainees do not change the president's determination to work with Congress to enable the administration to proceed with the military tribunals, or commissions. The goal is "to find a way to properly do this in a way consistent with national security," Snow said.

    Snow said that the instruction manuals used by the Department of Defense already comply with the humane-treatment provisions of Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions. They are currently being updated to reflect legislation passed by Congress and sponsored by Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, to more expressly rule out torture.

    "The administration intends to work with Congress," Snow said.

    "We want to fulfill the mandates of justice, making sure we find a way properly to try people who have been plucked off the battlefields who are not combatants in the traditional sense," he said.

    "The Supreme Court pretty much said it's over to you guys (the administration and Congress) to figure out how to do this. And that is where this is headed. And we look forward to working with Congress on this."
     
  2. bnb

    bnb Member

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    This is bad?
     
  3. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    The bad part is that it took a Supreme Court decision to make it happen.

    Administration myopia is the reason it never happed from the outset.
     
  4. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    I saw the title of this thread and was immediately attracted.

    Sincerely,

    [​IMG]
     
  5. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

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    "We want to fulfill the mandates of justice, making sure we find a way properly to try people who have been plucked off the battlefields who are not combatants in the traditional sense," he said.


    well said...
     
  6. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    And it would have never been said if the Supreme Court hadn't forced it out of them.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. bnb

    bnb Member

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    True enough.

    Not really a flip flop though.

    More like a well deserved boot to the backside...
     
  8. gwayneco

    gwayneco Contributing Member

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    Why don't we close Gitmo and send all the innocent little darlings to RMTex's place? Problem solved.
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    I'll allow that, but only if they bring beer and you act as the hostess.

    Dress appropriately, but nothing too low cut....you don't want to be showing off the goods until the deal has been sealed.

    :eek: ;) :D
     
  10. Baqui99

    Baqui99 Member

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    Score one for the jihadists. :D
     
  11. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

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    Is there a band and when is happy hour?
     
  12. gwayneco

    gwayneco Contributing Member

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    So. you'll be supplying the AK-47s and the RPGs?
     
  13. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    We won't need them if you will be the hostess (and wear the right outfit).

    You'll be killing them with your kindness...while I get them loaded!

    :D:D:D
     
  14. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Read my lips ....
     
  15. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    There is always a band at my place, and happy hour is 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Ask either RM95 or Buck Turgidson....they know! :D
     
  16. gwayneco

    gwayneco Contributing Member

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    I've got a better idea - let's send them back to some Al Qaida intel operatives in NYC. Of course, I'm talkin' bout Bill Keller, Eric Lichtblau, and Pinchy Sulzberger.
     
  17. Buck Turgidson

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    Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact --> Operation Barbarossa
     
  18. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

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    My opinion is terrorists don't deserve such treatment. They deserve much, much worse...
     
  19. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    Nope. No can do. They, and I, want to see you in your hostess outfit.

    Then we can officially call you Virgin #73.

    :eek: :D
     
  20. gwayneco

    gwayneco Contributing Member

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    True. Let's solve the problem by greasing them on the battlefield.
     

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