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The Beginning of a Jihad?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MacBeth, Aug 20, 2003.

  1. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Military and intelligence experts are starting to raise fears that several highly trained foreign nationals are entering Iraq with the express purpose of leading the way for what some fear is the beginning of a Jihad from across much of the Islamic world similar to that enacted to evict the USSR from Afghanistan. Already there are reported units entering the country from Syria, Iran, and probably Saudi Arabia. What is more clear is that the terrorist wing of the ehe extremist Islamic opposition to US power in the region which was previously excluded from Iraq because of Saddam Hussein's totalitarian control of the region are now finding Iraq to be a fertile ground full of potential targets.


    The CNN on air reporter stated that officials are 'gravely concerned' and that this new aspect to the war/peace in Iraq was seen as an extremely dangerous develoment


    In other news, an Iraqi official is reporting that he personally passed on a report of an impending major attack in Baghdad, targeting either the new Iraqi goverment or the United Nations, to US security forces almost a week before the attack. What steps were taken since remain unclear, and there is a pssibility that extra security for the UN compound was offered and declined by the Un officials.



    Pentagon: Possible al Qaeda link in Baghdad blast
    Wednesday, August 20, 2003 Posted: 2049 GMT ( 4:49 AM HKT)

    BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Pentagon officials said Wednesday that a terror group linked to al Qaeda is emerging as a top suspect in the deadly blast at U.N. headquarters in Baghdad.

    An official told CNN that intelligence reports in the past two weeks indicated Ansar al-Islam might be planning a major attack in Iraq, and a top U.S. official in the country also said he suspects the group could have launched Tuesday's strike that killed at least 17 people.

    "It's part of a global war against terrorism that was officially declared on us on September 11," U.S. civilian administrator L. Paul Bremer said. "It's quite clear we do have terrorists inside Iraq now."

    Sergio Vieira de Mello, the top U.N. envoy in Iraq, was among those killed Tuesday, and others are believed to be dead under the rubble. (Profile of Vieira de Mello)

    No one has claimed responsibility for the attack. (Bombing scene)

    But Bremer said that foreign terrorists or Ansar al-Islam could have been involved in the U.N. attack and the deadly Jordanian Embassy blast on August 7.

    "After the war, it appears that a number of terrorists from the Ansar al-Islam group have reinfiltrated into Iraq," Bremer said. "We are concerned about that. We also have other foreign terrorists who've been arriving from other borders."

    He said people are entering the country with travel documents from countries such as Sudan, Syria and Yemen. "This we know because we have killed or captured a number of them," he said.

    Pentagon officials said the bomb attack at the U.N. complex appears more sophisticated than would be expected from Saddam Hussein loyalists. However, they cautioned that members of the Mukhabarat, the former Iraqi intelligence service, would have the expertise to use explosives.

    U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan on Wednesday vowed the world body will press ahead with its efforts in Iraq.

    "We will carry on our work," he said. "We shall not be deterred. We are going to keep at it until we succeed."

    Of those who carried out the attack, he said, "This is not going to serve their cause."

    U.N. reassessing security
    In the carnage, four people remain unaccounted for, U.N. officials said. Eighty-six people were hospitalized, and 20 are to be evacuated to Jordan for treatment, they said.

    "For people who went into Iraq with only the objective of assisting the people of Iraq to be killed in such a violent and senseless manner is something that none of us will ever comprehend," Annan said.

    The bombing was the single most deadly attack in Iraq since the Bush administration declared an end to major combat operations on May 1. (Full story)

    Investigators said the explosives-laden truck was packed with "military-grade munitions" similar to those used by Saddam's armed forces.

    Pentagon officials said a key objective is to analyze the detonator used in the attack. They said they want to determine whether a so-called "shaped charge" was used that would have forced the bomb blast in the direction of the building to achieve maximum damage.

    "This was not a homemade bomb," said Tom Fuentes, the FBI agent leading the investigation. He noted that parts manufactured in the Soviet era were found among the explosives -- fragments from mortars, artillery shells, grenades and a 500-pound bomb.

    Fuentes said investigators were able to comb through the area where the truck bomb detonated. They got into the bomb crater, took chemical samples, retrieved vehicle parts and found some human remains, he said.

    Tuesday's attack has spurred concern over how to implement security measures in Iraq. Bremer said all foreign missions will meet Friday to talk about tougher precautions.

    Asked about a report that the United Nations in Baghdad declined an offer of increased security from U.S.-led coalition forces, Annan said that even if it were the case U.N. personnel should not have been allowed to do so.

    "First of all, I was surprised that we would turn down such an offer. And secondly, that kind of decision should not be left to the protectorate," he said. "It is those with the responsibility for security and law and order who have the intelligence which determines what action is taken."

    Annan said the United Nations is reassessing its security arrangements in Iraq.

    "Some mistakes may have been made; some wrong assumptions may have been made," he said, "but that does not excuse nor justify the kind of senseless violence that we are seeing in Iraq today."

    U.N. spokesman Fred Eckhard said the world body had been building a 12-foot concrete wall around the converted Canal Hotel that served as U.N. headquarters. But U.N. officials wanted "to maintain a certain openness to the Iraqi people," he said.

    "Security around our location was not as secure as you might find at the U.S. compound, and that was a decision we made so that our offices could be more accessible to people. We did not think at the time we were taking an unnecessary risk," Eckhard said.

    Bremer said the United Nations is responsible for security at its site, as are all foreign missions.

    U.S. civilian, soldier killed
    In new violence Wednesday, an American working as a contracted interpreter was killed and two U.S. soldiers wounded in small-arms fire and a rocket-propelled grenade attack in the north-central city of Tikrit, U.S. Central Command said.

    The names of the casualties were not released.

    The city, Saddam's ancestral homeland, has been the site of much activity by coalition troops searching for wanted Iraqis.

    In another incident, a U.S. soldier was killed and another injured when the heavy-duty truck they were riding in crashed into another vehicle in a supply convoy that was hit with small-arms fire, Central Command said.

    Security, medical and recovery assets were dispatched to the scene.

    CNN Correspondents Rym Brahimi and Barbara Starr contributed to this report.



    RISE IN RETALIATION
    Tuesday's bombing continues stepped-up attacks on facilities in Iraq.
    August 7 -- Jordanian Embassy in Baghdad bombed, killing 10
    August 16 -- Oil pipeline sabotaged in northern Iraq
    August 17 -- Water pipes sabotaged in Baghdad
    August 19 -- U.N. headquarters in Baghdad hit by truck bomb
     
    #1 MacBeth, Aug 20, 2003
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2003
  2. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Follow Up: CNN just reported that while the United Nations is offically stating that the attack on the UN compound in Baghdad will not deter their efforts in Iraq, a decision has been reached to pull most UN workers out of the troubled country, as it has been deemed unsafe. The World Bank is doing likewise. How many will remain, what their duties will be, and how long this suspension of planned activities will last were all unknown at the time of the report.
     
    #2 MacBeth, Aug 20, 2003
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2003
  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Time to lock the borders and shoot anyone that comes in....

    DD
     
  4. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Yeah, let's try and emulate the Soviet plan in Afghanistan as much as possible.
     
  5. Cohen

    Cohen Member

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    One potentially good aspect...it pulls al qaeda out of the caves and could make them easier to track down
     
  6. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    "Good...I'd prefer a fair fight to all this sneaking around." -- Han Solo
     
  7. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    BREAKING NEWS

    CNN just reported that US intelligence has recieved reports of a pending or ongoing operation to 'reconstitute Yemen as a base of operations' for Islamic extremist forces. US citizens, interests, and assosciates in the region are now thought to be high possibility targets.
     
  8. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    "Many Bothans died bringing us this information." -- that chick who is a leader or something in preparation for the attack on the new Death Star in Return of the Jedi.
     
  9. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    We can't even do that here, much less over there.
     
  10. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Here's an idea: What if the Islamics in the region already feel that they are in a holy war? Think about it for a second...Forget whether or not we take religion all that seriously, or see it as a cause for war, and remember that many in the Middle East do. Then add to that, from the perspective of an Islamic resident of the Middle East, that our President has already attacked two Islamic nations in the area...and has voiced the serious possibility of engaging two more...and all the time citing God and his religious convictions.

    I know you and I dismiss this aspect: but would a Middle East Islamic? Might it not seem that Bush is waging a Holy War of his own? 4 nations targetted; all Islamic. North Korea, Liberia, largely ignored. I am not suggesting that this is the case, at all, but as we ourselves are all trying to figure out the real reasons, no WMD, etc...what might be your first thought if you were in the targeted region? Might you not think that a Jihad...a war for the purpose of defending Islam...is necessary? Would that not seem as viable a reason for the war to people used to religious conflict as oil, political power, and all the other suggested ulterior motives?


    Again, not at all suggesting that this is a realistic reason for the war, merely pointing out how it might well appear thay way from the perspective of a religious person in the Middle East.
     
  11. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Macbeth, yeah, I think they believe they have been in a religious war for a long time now. They see 9/11 as a big success in that, and of course Israel has been a part of that war.

    Gulf War II wasn't the beginning of this war. They probably saw Gulf War I the same way. And Bin Laden didn't like our troops in Saudi Arabia because of religious reasons, right?

    This is crazy. Time for Bush to say combat operations are starting up again.
     
  12. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Also to add, I think Bush is aware that many people see the invasion as a religious war. That is why he made some speeches saying it wasn't a war against Islam. I doubt those speeches would work.
     
  13. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Mr. C. The purpose of my post wasn't to say that they are crazy, just to offer a sense of how this might appear to even you or I were we residents of the region. If you are a non-political resident, and all you see is the US supporting your enemy, and now attacking Islamic nation after Islamic nation, and siting his Goid all the while, and you have grown up with religious war as a reality in your experience, what would the reason be for you? The US...who used to support Saddam even when he killed countless, now invades...for humanitarian reasons!?!? Honestly, if you were an Arab from the region, even without knowing about all the WMD/uranium/etc. misleading rhetoric, would you trust that the US has invaded it's second Islamic nation in as many years...and is rattling it's sword towards two others...to save the people?
     
  14. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Hey, Bush isn't worried. Don't you remember his infamous battle cry: "Bring it on!".
     
  15. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    glynch, I believe that's "Bush ain't worried".
     
  16. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Macbeth I think you have some very valid points. I made a comment in another thread yesterday where I thought the bombings yesterday might have been a coordinated effort.

    Something more than random. I’ve had a feeling for a while now that this whole situation could explode.

    And I don't want to hear anything about this is being coordinated by Sadaam. If he's on the run every "three to four' hours, no way he could be working this out.

    It's someone else.

    And they're working inside and outside Iraq.

    Could be totally wrong...Just a feeling

    Another feeling is that, as you’ve said, this has just begun.
     
    #16 mc mark, Aug 20, 2003
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2003
  17. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    One interesting aspect to this, and maybe it's not unusual, but has just passed me by before, is why the investigation is being run by the F.B.I. Has there jurisdiction been expanded, is an occupied foreign state deemed part of the Federal realm as far as criminal investigations go, or have the Feds been increasing their services across the board when it comes to terrorist investigations?

    I think S.O.P. in the past would have left this in the hands of military intelligence, the C.I.A., and others, but not the Feds. Anyone know anything about this?
     
  18. Mango

    Mango Member

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    FBI agents have been in Pakistan for quite some time, but it is denied/downplayed by Pakistani authorities.

    <a HREF="http://heraldsun.news.com.au/printpage/0,5481,6067234,00.html">Sept 11 suspect questioned by FBI</a>

    As far as some other agency:

    CIA
    DIA
    etc

    taking the lead on the investigation, the FBI might be the best equipped/staffed for the task. Also, since they have done things that were domestic such as 9-11 and Oklahoma City, they have had the practice & routine for it.
     
  19. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I think the Patriot Act greatly expanded the powers of the FBI, including allowing them to operate overseas. I'm surprised that they would have the lead on this type of investigation. I would have thought that it would be a cooperative effort, including the FBI, but not in a lead role. I find this a bit strange, to tell you the truth.
     
  20. Friendly Fan

    Friendly Fan PinetreeFM60 Exposed

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    I believe you are correct.

    The FBI has a unit with great expertise in Al Qaeda, and they have expertise the soldiers and Army units don't have. they are looking for pieces of the bomb, for example, to see if it has any key signatures. they will be looking for anything similar to the forensics from Kenya, the USS Cole, WTC I, and other incidents.

    also, they have the language experts needed to interview witnesses

    I think using the FBI is one of the really smart things they're doing.
     

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