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The 2008-2009 Rockets team was most deficient in which of these offensive skills:

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by jopatmc, Jun 18, 2009.

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Which offensive skill were we most lacking in 2008-2009

  1. 3 point shooting

    12 vote(s)
    6.7%
  2. Passing/ball movement

    26 vote(s)
    14.6%
  3. Cutting/moving without the ball

    43 vote(s)
    24.2%
  4. Finishing at the rim

    31 vote(s)
    17.4%
  5. FT shooting

    2 vote(s)
    1.1%
  6. Drawing fouls

    7 vote(s)
    3.9%
  7. Low post offense

    5 vote(s)
    2.8%
  8. Fast break efficiency

    47 vote(s)
    26.4%
  9. Other (offensive rebounding, etc.)

    5 vote(s)
    2.8%
  1. jopatmc

    jopatmc Member

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    Which offensive skill were we most lacking in 2008-2009.


    3 point Shooting/spacing
    Passing/ball movement
    Cutting/moving without the ball
    Finishing at the rim
    FT shooting
    Drawing fouls
    Low post offense
    Fast break efficiency


    What do you think is the #1 offensive skill we were lacking in as a team last year?

    IMO, we lacked in ball movement and fast break efficiency. Fast break efficiency is a function of defense though and releasing early so I checked off on that and voted for passing/ball movement.

    Durvasa, it would be nice if you could fire up some stats to support this.

    To go along with this poll, consider what are the most important offensive skills in an Adelman offense and tell how you came to that conclusion.
     
    #1 jopatmc, Jun 18, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2009
  2. Nero

    Nero Member

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    Interesting question.

    The things which leap to mind automatically would be the fast breaks and drawing fouls, especially in light of how much Yao touches the ball and DOESN'T get the calls he should get.

    However, I think it would be just as interesting to see a chart of these stats month-by-month over the course of the season, and especially as a before-and-after for when we swapped Rafer for Lowry.

    My guess is both of those categories improved by quite a bit after that swap.
     
  3. jopatmc

    jopatmc Member

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    In light of having Yao, Artest, and Lowry on the floor for major minutes, you feel like we were lacking in drawing fouls? Care to elaborate?
     
  4. rocketman5803

    rocketman5803 Member

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    yeah ,in adelman's offense system ,it needs more moving without ball,more players like shane,brent,carl landry...now in this ROX,a lot of players like to handle the ball in their hands for about 10 seconds...
     
  5. Nero

    Nero Member

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    No, actually, kind of the opposite. Remember, Artest was not himself the first half of the season, and we didn't have Lowry yet either, and everyone knows Yao only gets maybe half the calls he should get.

    Maybe 'deficient' is not exactly the best word for it, but instead, the 'drawing fouls' part is simply an area in which this team *should* have been much better, and as I said, I suspect that it got appreciably better after the Rafer/Lowry swap, which coincided with Artest taking on a much bigger role too, as along that same time was when TMac officially took himself out of the season.

    Lowry is a monster at driving right into the trees and drawing fouls, and Artest is strong in there as well, when he is healthy enough to do it (which I really wonder about his health all through the playoffs - he rarely seemed like he had his true legs and strength). And of course Scola seems to really love throwing himself in harm's way, and on the defensive end Hayes and Battier are charge-drawing machines. Mainly I am referring to the offensive end though.

    That's why I would love to see those stats on a month-by-month chart over the course of the whole season. And then being able to project the season actually starting at some of the peaking levels we left off with, instead of having to play another half-season without the real team. And of course, this is ll just guessing, based on my perceptions over the course of the season - could be totally wrong.
     
  6. jopatmc

    jopatmc Member

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    Maybe I should have framed the question for after the trade, which is what I consider our 2008-2009 team to have been. That was the guys we decided to go to war with. So, looking at that unit with Yao, Artest, Lowry, and Brooks, I don't see a deficiency in drawing fouls. I think we excelled at drawing fouls on the offensive end, that is, after Lowry for Rafer went down.
     
  7. DesiDishoom

    DesiDishoom Member

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    IMHO, the Rockets biggest hole this season was generating offense when Yao was fronted and the weakside defender had good hands and good athleticism...which happened more often than not because that was the opposing PG, SG, or SF based on who was trying the entry pass.

    I was torn between picking Ball Movement and Moving without the ball because they both go hand in hand almost...and that's exactly what we need more of when Yao faces defenses like that. Getting the ball quickly to the man whose defender is out of position taking advantage of the attention that Yao gets was something we sorely lacked, and resulted in ridiculous shots jacked up by RonRon or (to some extent) AB.
     
  8. Depressio

    Depressio Member

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    I can't count how many games we lost due to missed layups. Those are always the worst, IMO, because they're free points lost.
     
  9. JujuxG

    JujuxG Member

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    I agree, and also i would to see more cutter slashing to the hoop when yao get double, yao is a good passer, and he can get make those assist play like the time with luther,
     
  10. Yetti

    Yetti Member

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    NUMBER ONE: PLAYMAKING
    NUMBER 2 : Double teaming and getting back to second defensive position.
    NUMBER 3 : Passing to Yao Ming when he is set up and calling for the ball.
     
  11. Aznoob

    Aznoob Member

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    Ball movement was VERY VERY suspect throughout the entirety of the season (pre-, regular, and post-).

    When TMac was still playing, the ball stopped with him.

    After Artest became the second option after Tracy went down with an injury, the ball often stopped with him.

    I dunno why, but they both seem to want to shoot first, and pass to the BIGGEST guy on the floor second.
     
  12. Big MAK

    Big MAK Member

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    Well, we arnt really a fast break team, that's just how we play. But still, we lacked moving without the ball, but that has to do alot with not passing the ball as well. Why waste the energy moving and cutting when you have Ron and Alston pounding away at the ball for 15 seconds, or Wafer midset of 'once I get the ball, I'm not going to pass.'

    All in all, the offence was pretty decent this year, we just have to work on ball movement and cutting.
     
  13. ghettocheeze

    ghettocheeze Member

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    Shot selection.

    Yes Yao dominated the paint but everybody else settled for too many outside shots. Near the end of the season and in the playoffs Vafer and Brooks did a little bit more driving to the basket but Artest and Battier are just horrible at picking their spots. Ron should post up little shooting guards more often and dominate them. I wouldn't mind him taking more shots if they were all 15 feet or less away from the basket but jacking up 3 pointers and bailing out the defense is inexcusable.

    Overall my message to the team for next year is to play closer to the basket. Those are higher percentage shots and lead to more offensive rebounds and 2nd chance points than bricking 3 pointers all night long. Spacing is important but just hovering around the 3 point line and waiting for a shot is not helping us.

    Recommendations for each player.

    Brooks - Develop a floater, runner or teardrop like Tony Parker. This will make you almost unguardable because of your speed and quickness. Also a stop and pop pullup shot would be deadly in your arsenal, right around the free throw line if the defender sags off too much from you.

    Battier - You are the man every team believes is not worth defending, Kobe did and you called him out but now you have to make them pay. Instead of waiting for a wide open 3, make this your new motto "I will cut to the basket 20 times a game". Yao is always hacked and striped by small defenders when you don't move around in the offense. So the next time Kobe decides to take a nap on defense or tries to bring some help on Yao. Just walk-crawl your way to the bucket, trust me the big man will feed you if he sees that you put some effort.

    Ron - Man what's wrong with you man playing like Ray Allen and jacking up all those shots? You are the Tru Warier remember that. Post up these little tiny players they put on you and take them to the rack. Nobody can guard you when you are pounding your sweaty, stinky back in their face. Make them feel some pain, put an elbow in Kobe's mouth (but make sure you do it subtly so the refs don't charge you for murder. ;)

    Go Rockets!!!
     
  14. Noob Cake

    Noob Cake Member

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    I didn't know Rockets could run a fastbreak without Wafer in the game.
     
  15. jopatmc

    jopatmc Member

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    Yes...................agreed.

    And we are incomplete until we can run an efficient fast break.

    What is missing for us to be able to run an efficient fast break my friends? What is missing?

    A distributing floor general like Chris Paul or Ricky Rubio is the straw this team needs to suck out of to go to the next level. How do we attain them?

    When you look at this very unscientific poll, the results show the vast majority of us see that we are lacking a floor general who can get up and down, handle, see the entire floor, and deliver the basketball on time and in the right spot. The kind of guy that you can throw the ball at halfcourt that can run down the middle of the floor, penetrate and dish to the open trailer or spott up shooter for the high percentage offensive play in motion. This is not necessarily the fastest guy on the floor. It is not necessarily the most athletic guy on the floor. It is the guy with the handle, that can go down the middle of the floor, deceive the defenders, penetrate to the bucket, and throw the ball to the right teammate for the EASY LOOK.

    Guys, it is real simple. We are missing that guy. McGrady is a modified version of that guy. He can walk it up the floor 5 on 5, and he can look over the defense, and when he is healthy (seldom) he can make a move with the basketball, use the pick, get off the shot, or find the appropriate teammate. But it is very hard work for him because he is always hurt, blah, blah, blah. And he flat out can't get up and down the floor to LEAD the fast break with a couple of wings flying up the court (Wafer, Landry, Brooks).

    Our best fast break last year was when Adelman inserted Lowry and Wafer into the lineup and let them FORCE the break. But we've got to face facts. As much as we like Lowry, as much as we like Brooks, neither one of them knows how to really run the break and get penetration smoothly, and penetrate in such a way that they are able to wait for guys to come free while they retain the dribble, and then they CANNOT get those guys the basketball so they can FINISH effectively. We are missing a CREATOR. This all spells Rubio, or Nash, or Paul, even an aged Jason Kidd, even a healthy McGrady if only in the halfcourt.

    If we are going to make a trade to seriously upgrade this team, we have to be able to ADD a playmaker/passer that can run the floor, run the team, finish and distribute. Otherwise, we might as well just keep McGrady and add him to last year's unit, let him work off the bench if we have to, to get production out of him with the 2nd unit where he can be big enchilada and take all the shots and make all the passes since that is the way he plays the game.

    Dear Darryl Morey:

    Please find a way to get Ricky Rubio, Chris Paul, or Steve Nash to Houston WITHOUT giving up Brooks.
     
  16. pmac

    pmac Member

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    This.

    We didn't have much of a problem with ball movement per se. Most of the time the ball was quickly moved from side to side until Yao gained decent position or there was an opening. What we really lacked was a player (or players) who could break down the defense and was actually a threat to finish at the rim. Brooks was the closest thing but you don't need to double him in the paint due to his size. Obviously this wasn't the plan. I'm sure the rockets predicted Mcgrady to be effective at some point in the season. I fully expect this be a non-issue by the beginning of the season.
     
  17. Alvin Choo

    Alvin Choo Member

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    I just cant understand why the rox cant get fastbreak points/easy basket.

    The defense is good, its not like JVG era where 4-5 players goes for the defensive rebound, rox have runners or at least willing runners and we get huge amount of steals, ball deflection from Yao, scola, battier and artest.

    The PF tandem in Scola and landry is able to finish the fast break. Heck Scola even have good enough ball handling to lead the break.

    I just cant understand it.
     
  18. jopatmc

    jopatmc Member

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    Look at our lineups.

    Brooks, Battier, Artest, Yao, Scola

    The only guys that are really going to be able to run out and finish are Brooks and Scola. And Scola is a 4. That is not a break. Ideally, a break is a PG in the middle and two guys on the wings, typically a SG and a SF. Battier and Artest are not gonna run with Brooks. It's a mismatch. The only fast break we are going to get is off a steal in the backcourt.

    Now look at our reserves. We bring in Lowry and Wafer in the backcourt. That is a 2 man fast break. Helter Skelter. Just two guys running down the floor real fast and trying to beat the opponent down.

    What we need is a consistent break, a consistent threat, a guy that strikes enough fear to make the defense have to hustle back all the time. Rafer was great with the handle and getting down fast, but he couldn't do anything with it. There was nobody there and he sure couldn't take it to the rim and finish, much less find guys trailing the play for the finish. You've got to get that guy, the man that stirs everybody else, that gets them to run, that gets them to anticipate the pass, or gets them to go to the glass for the putback because they know he is going to the rim. Where is he?
     
  19. hasan08

    hasan08 Member

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    Closing the game!! Offensive struggles...a go to guy....
     
  20. baller4life315

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    Low post offense once Yao got hurt has been the reason we lost in the playoffs the past two years. How that has only 4 votes is beyond me.

    1) Low post offense



    2) Fast break efficiency (never a strong point on a Rockets team)
    3) Ball movement when T-Mac was still playing. I'm of the opinion that we improved drastically in this regard once he hung it up for the season.
     

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