The #2 pick is available (opinion), what can we offer?

I agree with you that trading Jason Williams could possibly result in getting either Lewis or Odom,but I don't think that Chicago will be willing to take Rice because of his injuries even though he can backup Robinson.
The other thing I'm concerned about is the lack of a center even if we get Lewis or Odom.If we are lucky we might be able to get James with the MCE.
I really don't think that there are any centers worth getting in this draft,except for Ming and even he needs a lot of time to develop a low post game.However if he is available with either the 1st or the 2nd pick I would still draft him.
As far as the team that you have listed for Chicago,it could get to the playoffs in the east if Marcus plays well for them and the MCE player turns out to be a solid vet.

 

Didn't Rice leave Krause at the alter a couple of years ago? Maybe I'm thinking of someone else?

 

No I'm not. I think if Rice recovers from his injuries he could still put up some numbers off the bench.But I don't that Krause would want to take on his contract even though he has the salary cap to do so.I think that Chicago might look for another veteran player instead of Rice.
I'm not a Bulls fan,but Krause is known to pick up players with small salaries.

 

Sane, that trade is bad for the Bulls. I seriously can not see why they would do that deal. Glen Rice is old, and can't contribute. Moochie is an overpaid point guard. Then would give up a number 2 pick which could land Jason Williams or Yao Ming. The Bulls still believe that Fizer has potential, probably more than Kenny Thomas.

They would not do that trade. We would rip them off. They are basically trading their #2 pick for Moochie Norris, Kenny Thomas, Glen Rice, and an okay draft pick. Those are not impact players. Personally, I'd rather have Yao Ming or Jason Williams rather than those three and a draft pick.

Would this work financially too?

 

Sane...I think you are bang on on one point, way off on one or two others...

1) Yes, I agree that the Bulls don't really need another star-level player. That said, neither Crawford nor Robinson have shown enough to justify trading away a potential star to accomodate their pt...They could just as easily look to add, say, Woods as the 3, bring Eddie off the bench, and trade Fizer for a spare part. Or Williams at the point, Crawford as a swing guard off the bench...etc..either way, it isn't as if Jamal Crawford or Eddie Robinson's presence have them boxed in.

2) Even if you accept that they need to make a trade, the one you suggested just doesn't make any sense from a value for value point of view, and is an example of what you and I were debating in another thread...Let's distill this trade proposal...

Moochie, Rice, Kenny Thomas, the #15, and obligations for the no. 2 overall, and Marcus Fizer...Broken down...

* Rice is of negligable trade value, and I think he would have to count as a negative in this trade...in other words, we have to give up value to get the Bulls to take him...

* the obligations are 2 seconds, which hold very little trade value in today's game, but let's say that they, along with Moochie compensate for the Bulls taking Rice off our hands...Hell, I'll be generous, let's throw in Fizer to boot, call it even...

* So we are left with us moving up from the 15th pick, for example, Marcus Ely ( NBADraft.com's predicition) to the land of Yao Ming or Jason Williams,and to do this extraordinary leap in value we give them....................kenny thomas.........!?!?

This is the kind of thing I was telling you about. You asked for examples of Thomas' value being overblown, and thoughtfully provided one yourself. The mistake I think you're making is saying " What are the Bulls' holes, and what do we have to fill them?" rather than looking at value...Talent is the commodity of exchange in the NBA, not roles, else you could have made a case for the Spurs trading the rights to Tim Duncan for a role-playing PF and a pg, as they didn't NEED another big man....or you could look at the Clippers and suggest that they should trade Odom for a backup center, cause if they sign Kandi, they don't have any holes to fill....but it won't happen, and neither will this trade. God, I wish it would, though, and your initial argument, about the Bulls roster, was very well thought out...

 

First, Moochie Norris is not the best backup point gurad in the league. I like him, but there are better backup points in the league. Bobby Jackson... The Bulls also have Travis Best who wants to resign. Then they have Jamal Crawford, who seems to have potential. Two point guards, they don't need another one.

You say that contract plays a role in trades. Rice has an ugly contract. The Bulls could pick up a good player with a cheap contract at the number two pick. Rice is also coming off an injury, and his future is uncertain. He's probably going to be healthy, but there is a risk that he might not. Glen Rice would be stuck in the rotation behind Jalen Rose and Eddie Robinson.

I admit that the Bulls get depth from this trade, but it's not very good. They also give up a valuable forward in Fizer who could become just as good as Kenny Thomas. Kenny Thomas is the only really good player in this trade. Jason Williams or Yao Ming have star potential. They could get way better deals from other teams for a number two pick.

 

Sane:

Are you sure that you are not insane ?? Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Like saleem and Rocketblast have said, Rice has a very ugly contract. You can talk about how much veteran leadership and intangibles and other stuff you want, but no one (at least with a sound mind) will bite. Not even Krause (at least I wouldn't think he would).

Everyone just needs to face the facts that we have 3 of the worst contracts ever in Rice, Cato, and Moochie & none of them are going anywhere until their contracts run out.

Besides, it wouldn't make any sense whatsoever to trade a 7 foot 6 player that has the skills of Yao Ming. The only way I can see some team trading him is if they know he won't play for them, i.e. the Chinese government won't let him out of his contract to go play in the NBA.

I think a more realistic deal would be to trade KT and our #15 pick to someone in the top 10 for their pick. Then hopefully we can get Caron Butler (or Woods - threw that in for thumbs) and a big man, either Stoudemire, Wilcox, or Marcus. It would be nice to get Rashard Lewis (I don't want Odom), but I don't know how CD and Rudy are going to make that happen.

Bottom line is that it would be nice to get rid of some of these terrible contracts, but it ain't gonna to happen. Period.

 

I agree. People bring up these trade proposals hoping to trade away these terrible contracts, but it is going to be harder than it seems to get rid of them.

 

Sane, no disrespect but Moochie is one of the worse backup PG's in the league. I think certain people are confusing his greatness with a spot-up shooter (not a PG). Yes, he made a few shots down the stretch, but did he create those shots? NO Did he run the offense to receive the pass for the shot? NO All he did was sit at the 3 point line, and was lucky to catch an outlet pass when Francis/Mobley could not penetrate.

Moochies biggest accomplishment is dribbling around in circles (for 20 seconds), until he either forces a bad shot (himself) or forces somebody else in a last minute shot. I am not a Moochie hater, but he is way OVERRATED and I think Damon Jones would of been a better pickup last summer. Even Tier brings in a little excitement to the game. Moochie just slows it down.

 

1) Making a bad move for the sake of veteran leadership, etc, just landed the Bulls Charles Oakley....A bad move is a bad move...

2) Of course they are a better team after the trade, well, maybe, because you fail to account for one of their more valuable commodities...the 2nd overall pick in the draft. And I maintain that the value of a Yao Ming or a Jason Williams is far superior to the addition of Kenny Thomas and Mooch, even if you don't subtract Fizer, who probably has more upside/trade value than Kenny Thomas, certainly more than Moochie...

3) Satisfying the need for leadership, etc. can be done a lot cheaper than giving up on a Ming or J-Will...

4) While I agree that Rice hasn't been a problem this year, his career puts him more in the negative attitude bracket than the vet leadership one...and aside from him, who are we giving them who's ever won anything?

 

*caugh* *caugh*
Did i just read that Moochie was the best PG in the league?!