[Texans & Carr] Someone please explain something to me....

We found out that even if you put CARR behind Denver's oline that

Carr would probably be worst than Plummer

 

I don't think the D was a problem the first three years. Then I think that the D got worse than the O-line in year 4.

 

The D suffered big time in year 4 as a result of managment's decisions to cut Sharper and Glenn. While they had both declined physically, and were likely not worth the price of their contracts (ie - it was probably a good buisness decision to cut them), they were the LEADERS of the defense... something that Capers severely underestimated.

The o-line has always been a huge problem... since right after Tony Boseli was made the "glorified expansion draft darling". They did virtually nothing to address it the first 4 years, and finally decided to draft two offensive lineman in this year's draft (along with signing Flannigan). Spencer is hurt, Winston is playing out of position, and Pitts isn't anything special (although he's the ONLY guy we have who could possibly start for another team).

Would David Carr be a pro bowler right now if he had simply an average line in place? Probably not... but you have to admit that the lack of pass protection likely stunted his development much more than had it been simply adequate.

 

Your premise was mine for four years.

But the o-line is better this year, and DC is not. Perhaps he was ruined by the horrible excuse of an O-Line we had and managements stupefying incompetence in addressing it, but whatever the cause I don't think DC can do it, at least not here.

And, that's a serious shift of opinion for me.

 

Can someone list the offensive lineman drafted with high draft picks who were busts during the last five years, and the offensive linemen signed to large free agent contracts who were busts? It should be a long list.

 

Agreed. Kubiak gave Carr every opportunity to have a solid year, and he didn't step up. True, we lost 3 offensive linemen, but that doesn't give Carr the excuse to completely meltdown (like with the fumbles against the Titans and Radiers, the interceptons against the Patriots, and the 8 or 9 straight games without a meaningful TD).

Carr may yet be decent at some point in his career. But we can't count on him anymore when the rest of our team is making some strides. I see us bringing in some guys to compete for the starting job next year.

 

So, your premise is that there are a lot of overrated o-lineman?

Robert Gallery is the only name that comes to mind... but even he is still able to start week-in/week-out for the Raiders.

Most free agent lineman are worth their deals... and if they aren't, they get cut.

 

first round OL taken since 2001..

2002:
Mike Williams OL Texas: A huge bust for the Bills.. now on the bench with the Jags
Levi Jones OL Arizona St: Been injured a lot this year, but never made any probowls or anything, but definitely not a bust.
Marc Columbo OL Boston College: Started with the bears.. suffered injuries and was cut. Picked up by Dallas and getting back in the mix.

2003:
Jordan Gross OL Utah: an underperformer at LT who was moved to RT and then eventually to guard.. but has got his act together and now has the LT spot again in Carolina
George Foster OL Georgia: he's the RT in the broncos rotating door system of offensive linemen. starts most games but listed as the backup on depth.
Kwame Harris OL Stanford: starting RT for the niners since 2004.. hasnt set the world on fire but i doubt they're in a hurry to get rid of him

2004:
Robert Gallery OL Iowa: lol you know what happened here.
Shawn Andrews OL Arkansas: pro bowler in 2006 for Philly!

2005:
Jamaal Brown OL Oklahoma: made the pro bowl for the saints in his second year... after new orleans nabbed him using a pick afforded to them by the Texans from the year before in a trade.
Alex Barron OL Florida State: starting RT for the Ramz
Chris Spencer OL Ole Miss: backup center for the Seahawks. but has filled in admirably with injuries to starters this year

First Round OL Drafted Since Texans Formed: 11
Number of First Rounders Starting Currently: 8
Number of First Rounders Pro Bowls: 2


the only glaring busts are Williams and Gallery... Gallery is still playing at least.. but the amount of hype around him was insane for someone who struggles to keep his starting spot.

 

The song and dance the Texans and their enablers always gave was "weak draft for OL, no good value, all we got to do is change the coach and get a new blocking scheme" and then we ended up with Sleeper extraordinaire Seth Wand. Meanwhile plenty of quality linemen have come out of the last few drafts.

PS Levi Jones is very very good (alternate for hte pro bowl last year- though many pronouced him among the very best) - using pro bowls isn't a great indicator insofar as the voting for OL 's is notoriously inept. Also, plenty of decent OL have come from rounds 2-4 recently - while the Texans are busy with the Bennie Joppru's of the world.

 

That always really annoyed me... they seemed to have no fallback plan if the line failed to progress.... and avoided everything except actually drafting an o-lineman (till this past year).

Draft Tony Boseli... no fallback plan if he doesn't come back... move Chester Pitts to LT (severely out of position).

Seth Wand sucks... sign Zach Weigert... he really sucks also.... draft Travis Johnson.

Team overachieves by going 7-9... make zero changes with the o-line... and say that David Carr is the real reason they allowed a near-record number of sacks his first 3 years.

 

in my mind Carr needed to have these things happen this year in order for him to be kept around:

3000+ yards (at abou 2,700 now.. prolly not gonna happen)
a decent TD to INT ratio (right now he's at 11:11.. not gonna cut it)
and most importantly.. 7 or more wins (not possible now, and i fully expect them to tank against the browns next week)

basically he needed to have his best season ever, and he hasn't.

the texans are probably going to end up with 5 wins, 3 more than last year, whoop-tee-doo.

david's stats arent terrible.. his QB rating is respectable and his completion percentage is great.. but in the biggest games of the year he has completely sucked nards..

he's going to go off and be great somewhere, just not here.

 

did u see bob mcnair's comments when asked about carr staying,

basically says he wants to evaluate the situation at the end of the year, but hopes carr continues to play well.

this pretty much means...Jake Plummer

 

Why would you think that? At best he's a dink and dunker who doesn't take chances. At worst he's an awful decisionmaker with happy feet and very few so-called intangibles, with a knack for putting the ball on the grass.

At best he'd be a caretaker, "hand off and don't screw up" guy on a team where he'd be a bit player.

 

Not much, it seems. Though the O-Line has constantly been changing over the years. As have the WRs, the RB's, and TE's. The only constant on an offense that has been consistently bad has been Carr.

Tough to say, but probably so. The problem with Carr is that the excuse don't hold up. People would say "if only he had a running game, he'd be better". In games where there is a solid running game, he hasn't been any better. Same with the O-Line. He's had time on a lot of throws - he shows no signs of being able to do anything in those situations either.

Last year, the defense went to crap too. I think the Texans had the worst defense in football last year? With an offensive-minded coach coming in and the blame being put on the old coach for not being creative, the organization felt that the offense to some extent could improve with a better system.

Because, regardless of the players around him, a QB has to at some point perform. That's not to say he has to single-handedly win games or what not. But he has to show some sign that he's a guy that has a positive impact on the team - and he hasn't done that. His own coach took the ball out of his hands for an entire half of a game because he was hurting the team more than helping it. Any of 20 or 30 QB's could do what Carr does on this team.

Ultimately, the organization made a (bizarre, to me) decision that Carr could be magically improved with coaching and it looks like that wasn't the case. Everyone else in the organization over the past 5 years has been held accountable and changed - the entire defense, WR's, O-Line, RBs, TEs, kickers, coaches, GM, etc. The only one that hasn't changed is Carr. Now, he's finally going to be looked at.

Carr may have been a good or even great QB had he started his career elsewhere. He may go on somewhere else to become a good QB. But there's too much that's happened in Houston that both he and the organization need a fresh start at the very least. He could be Joey Harrington and find a spot elsewhere. Or he could be Tim Couch and be out of the league. But regardless, it's finally time to try something new.

 

You were expecting 7 wins? Even if Mario was putting up 15 sacks for the season, this was very unlikely.

Vince would have masked some of the deficiencies of the offensive line... hell, he would have made the defenses pretty fearful, and you'd see opposing d-lineman purposely not wanting to beat their man off the block simply to contain VY's running capability.

RB wouldn't have created the same effect... although the o-line has improved their run blocking enough now to allow Dayne to have pretty good games... thus, RB would have been having pretty big games for us by now.

 

The only people that ever think about tanking are fans. A chunk of the players aren't going to be here next year - they have no reason to tank. Any player that doesn't play to win shouldn't be in the NFL anyway. The coaches are trying to learn to win and teach their teams to win - they aren't going to tank either. This whole idea that teams tank to get a better draft pick is just silly.

If they wanted to tank, they wouldn't have won this week. They might lose, but it will be because they suck, not because they tried to lose.

 

I wonder if the Texans drafted DeBrickShaw, if they'd be much better?

The Jets are doing very well, and Chaz Pennington doesnt seem to be getting sacked all the time.