A terror suspect who was arrested, given a lawyer, and rights of the accused as well as having his family flown in from Nigeria by the govt. is cooperating and providing useful information. Amazing that he didn't need to be tortured, or denied his rights. We didn't have to sell out the principles that made this nation great to get good, useful intel. Looks like another instance of Bush and the GOP being dead wrong when it comes to fighting terrorism. This is a way to fight the war on terror that can make Americans proud again.
Yeah, I wonder how Al Qaeda's recruiting compares, when: (1) "The great Satan tortures people! They are injust and we must fight. Please sign here, and then here is your exploding thong... Um, no NO no, please use the dressing room." (2) "The great Satan, when they catch you, will fly your family to America and provide you legal representation.... Wait! Please wait until we talk about the virgins after you die! Come back! The virgins, I tell you -- there are NONE in America!"
Once we give them a lapdance and let them ride a waterslide they'll say anything to get to do either of those things again. Kill 'em with kindness, booyah.
The Obama administration reports he is "talking," but that could mean almost anything, couldn't it? It would be wise to wait for more information about the substance of his disclosures before getting all excited about this. This could just be a politically driven announcement that is lacking in any appreciable substance, orchestrated by the Obama communications team to try and tamp down the growing alarm over the Obama administration's mishandling of this matter. And to the degree that he is offering any truly actionable intelligence, is he offering this information in return for concessions offered in a plea bargain arrangement? One of the journalists in the White House press corp needs to focus on determining if this is the case, and then report it to the American people one way or another.
They have said more than he's talking. They've said he's providing valuable, actionable intel. I'm fine with the press core digging further into it. Even the people who were waterboarded provided the useful intel prior to the waterboarding. We don't need to do it. It isn't effective. We see that methods currently being used, are effective.
Correct he did. So did the Blind Sheik. So did any other number of would-be terrorists, murderers etc. Due process didn't stop justice from being carried out in any of those cases. That's the point. Our system is good enough that when people do this, we can still apply our system of justice, and due process, and justice can still be carried out.
I'm not saying due process cant work. I'm saying, if this man took a few shots to the ribs/face or heaven forbid, a splash o' water, I wouldn't exactly feel sorry for him. I do understand that this individual was most likely taught from a young age to hate western civilization. Almost to the point of empathy, I understand. but not enough to discount what he tried to do. Again, I'm not trying to defend Bush/Cheney tactics, but I'm not about to celebrate tax payers dollars being used to make a terrorist feel cozy. and just to spare the argument, yes, I realize the final goal, and I agree the intel this guy reveals is more important than anything, but you'll have to excuse me for having a good ole boy mentality and wanting to have this guys face caved in.
It has nothing to do with making him feel cozy or not. It has to do with what works to make America safe. That's more important than a gratifying torture session or punch. I understand the sentiment of wanting to give him a beat down, and I recognize that you see the end goal. I think that's what's important and what was missing a lot in the previous administration's approach.
What's to say that Dick Cheney along with others from the previous Admin's claims that torture brought actionable intel wasn't just politically driven anouncement's lacking substance, orchestrated by the Bush Admin communication team? And why weren't the White House press corps during the last Admin. allowed to focus on determining if the claims that torture actually produced actionable intelligence? Why were attempts by reporters to look into such things blocked in the name of national security. Why was even such inquiries considered unpatriotic?
Here we go again. It is nice to know we have our first terror suspect who was not beat, waterboarded and then had his nails pulled out. This is not the first time a terror suspect has cooperated with the government. Should we hail victory everytime one does? Not every terror suspect is going to have influential parents. The controversy is not about whether we should torture the guy. The controversy revolves around due process.
Actually it has been determined that the cases touted by the Bush administration as those methods having brought actionable intel were bogus. The actionable intel was brought out prior to the waterboarding, and the useful intel stopped once the torture began. In fact the torture resulted in wasted resources tracking down false leads.
Sure, but nobody in the government was advocating using anything beyond verbal interrogation. The guy was given his Miranda just a very short time after he was arrested. Some feel he was not interrogated enough before they allowed him to lawyer up. I completely agree. Everyone deserves their inalienable rights as a human being (ie. not torturing them). I however do not agree that non-citizens of this country should be allowed to lawyer up or allowed a free pass on their crime because the prosecuter didn't cross every T and dot every i....especially ones who hold information that can lead to preventing innocent deaths. Once again, nobody is advocating torture.
Actually we are still waiting for the first time torture is shown to work on the suspected terrorists. As long as their are people out there who think we need to torture then yes we should celebrate every time sound methods are used until people realize that torture is not only immoral but ineffective. As was already pointed out, lack of torture is certainly a part of due process. I hope it doesn't pain you too much to see successful and useful interrogation of suspected terrorists applauded. I think it's odd that you would encourage anyone to not cheer for successful interrogation (even it is done in a more moral, and legal way).
I find your obsession on this particular subject regarding torture odd. Once again, outside of personal opinions, nobody has advocated we torture this guy. Go find me a factual number of terrorist detainees and a factual number of those who were tortured. Personally, I think you've been watching too much 24 and are led to believe that torture is part of the normal. In other words, the vast majority of our intel that has came from actual terrorists have come from non-torture means.
Question: how was McVeigh tried? How many Americans did he kill, when compared and contrasted to the crotch bomber from Africa?
The Bill of Rights doesn't distinguish between citizens and non-Citizens. It doesn't state what people can do but what the government can't do. I've heard quite a few people saying this guy should've been waterboarded.
