more please: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...rq04.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/07/04/ixworld.html -- US delight as Iraqi rebels turn their guns on al-Qa'eda By Oliver Poole in Qaim (Filed: 04/07/2005) American troops on the Syrian border are enjoying a battle they have long waited to see - a clash between foreign al-Qa'eda fighters and Iraqi insurgents. Tribal leaders in Husaybah are attacking followers of Abu Musab Zarqawi, the Jordanian-born terrorist who established the town as an entry point for al-Qa'eda jihadists being smuggled into the country. The reason, the US military believes, is frustration at the heavy-handed approach of the foreigners, who have kidnapped and assassinated local leaders and imposed a strict Islamic code. Fighting, which could be clearly heard at night over the weekend, first broke out in May when as many as 50 mortar rounds were fired across the city. But, to the surprise of the American garrison, this time it was not the target. If a shell landed near the US base, "they'd adjust their fire and not shoot at us", Lt Col Tim Mundy said. "They shot at each other." The trigger was the assassination of a tribal sheikh, from the Sulaiman tribe, ordered by Zarqawi for inviting senior US marines for lunch. American troops gained an insight into the measures the jihadists had imposed during recent house-to-house searches in nearby towns and villages. Shops selling music and satellite dishes had been closed. Women were ordered to wear all-enveloping clothing and men forbidden from wearing western clothes. Anyone considered to be aiding coalition forces was being killed or kidnapped. That included those with links to the government - seen as a US puppet - such as water or electricity officials. As a result local services had collapsed. Captain Thomas Sibley, intelligence officer of 3rd battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, based in Qaim, said: "People here were committed supporters of the insurgency but you cannot now even get a marriage licence. "The tribes are the only system or organisation left and they appear to have stepped in. "In the last week our camp in the town was attacked and the attackers got ambushed on the way back by two machineguns and mortar fire. That is good news for us." Baghdad recently warned that Iraqi insurgents, many of them nationalists rather than Islamists, and al-Qa'eda cells were working more closely together than in the past. That was brought into doubt when the bodies of three foreigners, believed to be insurgents, were discovered in Ramadi, apparently killed by Iraqis. But the extent of the jihadist presence in Hasaybah - and therefore the subsequent tension - is unique. Foreign fighters first started to arrive two years ago after Zarqawi bought properties to use as safe houses for arrivals before they could be funnelled east towards Baghdad and other major cities. The police fled in November. In mid-June, al-Qa'eda units took over key buildings, including mosques and government offices. "Al-Qa'eda in Iraq" flags were raised. The city, 240 miles north-west of Baghdad and adjacent to the insurgent centre of Qaim, is so dangerous that soldiers in the US base sleep in bunkers because of mortar and rocket attacks. Following al-Qa'eda's seizure of the main buildings a number of residents fled. Arkan Salim, 56, who left with his wife and four children, said: "We thought they were patriotic. Now we discovered that they are sick and crazy. "They interfered in everything, even how we raise our children. They turned the city into hell, and we cannot live in it anymore."
This in fact debunks the dubious claim by Bush and Co. that insurgents in Iraq are al-Qa'eda fighters.
Exactly. It shows how out of touch with reality the Bush Administration is in regards to Iraq. I have always felt that the majority of insurgents were not Al Qaeda, but Iraqis pissed off at foreigners occupying their land. This proves it. Nonetheless, I am with Basso....more please! It could be the beginning of the Iraqis finally defending themselves.
leave it to liberals to find a way to bash bush in a fratricidal fight between al-queda and bathist remnants. but the bathists are freedom fighters, just like the viet cong were!
This is really great news. I hope the insurgents have the upper hand on AQ, but if they thin each others ranks who cares, all the better. What a clusterf*ck. US army and newly trained Iraq army vs. Iraqi insurgents and AQ, meanwhile AQ and insurgents vs. each other. Actually, I like that picture- the insugents and AQ have more enemies than anybody else.
By that great logic, aren't Americans and Britans and other members of "Coalition of Willing" involved in insurgent activity as well?
Yes I definitely see the words Viet Cong and freedom fighter in my post, Basso. Your imagination knows no bounds, as usual. I do believe that if a foreign army ever invaded and occupied the United States, you'd be one of the wussies hiding in a closet!
basso's post is an insight into the minds of many older Americans. The Vietnam War still plays heavily on Americans who where alive then, especially those who thought the war was a righteous one. Many older Americans who hated the anti-war movement in the 60's and early 70's see this war as a chance to defeat the antiwar movement this time when they lost last time. If you question this ask anyone who still hates jane fonda over her trip hanoi.
What anti-war movement? The Senate was gung-ho as was the majority of citizens about the Iraq war. I am in the minority here and I know that I am. There was no anti-war force like there was in Vietnam.
i was about 10 y/o when jane made her trip, so i wasn't that "political" then, although i was the only kid on my block w/ a goldwater bumper sticker on his tricycle in 1964. my little jab was about the implication in RMT's post that the insurgents are just ordinary iraqis fighting to throw off the yolk of the opressor, rather than bathist recidivists bent on destroying their country to regain power allied w/ islamic fascists, many of whom are foreigners.
I'm trying to understand the "sympathy" expressed here for Iraqi insurgents? Weren't they Saddam's cohorts? Wasn't he a bad guy?
What sympathy? Maybe I do have some problem in reading comprehension. I thought this thread was about Iraqi insurgents fighting Al-Quada, which in my dictionary means they are not in the same bed. Posters pointed out to say how ridiculous that Administration's claim was. Where is the sympathy? Just because people say they can understand that bad guys will fight against invasion as well? Why do I hate America? I won't admit that, because as much as I critisize US policies and some ignorant and arrogant Americans, I have lots of friends and relatives live in US, and I still think it's the most powerful country, and up front in democracy and freedom. In my shallow view, America is proud of its consitution, and the freedom to be critical of government. But more and more I see attacks on TV, in newspaper, and of course on this BBS, people attack others' motives just because they have different view. There are growing so called "angry youth" in China, some young people are really sensitive and defensive, whenever you criticize Chinese policy or anything, they will start to curse you, and call you traitors, and ask you to go to your US masters, and ask you why you hate China. Everytime I saw something like that, I couldn't help laughing. Isn't that ironical? One side hates another, coz they are bunch of commies; another side hates this, coz they are bunch of imperalists. But they act the same.
To understand the insurgents as Iraqi Freedom fighters you have to understand that their perspective and reality is different from yours. They see the US as against Islam, they see the US as foreign occupiers. They have no concept of democracy and have only know brutal tribalism for thousands of years. The Baathist had every reason to suspect that they would face the same repression from the Shiites that they inflicted upon them when they had the upper hand. They don't watch CNN, they haven't had a Liberal Arts education, they have never driven across America. You can argue that they are the ones that are wrong but their deep belief is otherwise. That was our "they will greet us as liberators" misconception because we couldn't see beyond our reality , our western bias. And it's going to take a huge, long PR campaign to change their perception. I would have dropped more radios and crank powered TV's than bombs if I had been in charge. Still this propaganda blurb could be good news. The only way out of this mess is to inspire an Iraqi nationalism. But generally that type of groundswell requires a figurehead with the charisma to rally people and the only Iraqi that seems a possibility to do that is Al Sistani (?) and the US isn't ready to abandon the hope for a secular government yet. Maybe our perception will change.
I don't think anybody would argue this with you. I think the issue is that some who don't identify with these terrorists still think of them a freedom fighters.
