Since it's a privately owned facility, they have the right to do what they want to. If they want to ban the redneck idiot, they can. ------------------ Going for the Rolls Royce! visit www.swirve.com
Although the Motor City Madman certainly went about it the wrong way, I agree with him in a sense. I wouldn't go to France and expect everything to be written in French and English. If I was to go to a foreign country for any extended period of time, I would certainly feel it necessary to learn (at least) basic language skills and cultural differences. That, and I believe his first amendment right to free speech was indeed violated. If you don't like what he has to say, don't go to the show. Simple as that. ------------------ I need a new signature. 302
I thought all these musicians died in the 80s. As for his free speech rights, they are not violated. The Constitution guarantees that the government won't infringe on his speech; private entities aren't bound to let him talk. As a matter of fact, Pace Entertainment's free speech would be violated if anyone made them let him go on. ------------------ Rockets Draft Obligations Summary http://www.gaffordstudios.cjb.net/
Ted just does anything for media attention. He dried up as an artist in the 70's, right after "wang dang doodle" I believe ------------------ "Get up, stand up. Stand up for your right"-Bob Marley
His first amendment right was not violated. He was allowed to speak it, he spoke it, now those that heard it are exercising their rights to make him pay for it. They're all exercising their rights. ------------------ Just shut up and post
I'm not a fan of Nugent or that style of music, but the first thing I thought of was KISS and Ted Nugent... The Geriatric Tour. ------------------ Just shut up and post
I heard from a friend that Ted's antics caused two problems: 1. Bad media attention for the privately-owned Cynthia Woods Mitchell Pavillion. 2. Many of the pavillion employees are Hispanic including a couple of stage managers and a promoter. Apparently, the Pavillion was set to let it go as was Pace until someone asked Ted to make a formal apology. When he refused, he was quoted as saying that there is no way they would ban him from a show in Houston. That was basically the nail in the coffin. Not only were the Pavillion people furious, but so was Pace who represents quite a large number of Tejano and Latin artists and has a large number of Hispanic employees. According to my friend, this wasn't just the pressure from LULAC. This was a matter of how they could save face with other artists who make them a lot of money every year. If they would have kept Nugent on the bill, it could have meant the loss of quite a few concerts to both the Pavillion and Pace. BTW: he also told me that KISS's people were livid as well because it obviously puts them in a bad spot. After all, this isn't Ted's gig. It is the farewell tour for KISS. ------------------ Save Our Rockets and Comets SaveOurRockets.com
While everyone is intitled to their opinion, it does not mean they are correct. I was their when the comments were made. The way he went about was wrong but the message was correct. Why should my tax dollars goto to teaching spanish speaking kids in spanish. I would not expect my kids to be taught in english if I lived in Germany or Mexico. If you cannot speak the language then you are at a distinct disadvantage. He was a bit rough and derrogitory but the message was correct. I do not care how many people are in this country who cannot speak english but do not expect to have jobs and education handed to you without at least attempting to learn the language. I have a friend who is spanish and he was born in Mexico City. At age 5 his family moved to america. His father told the school to teach him in english and not to use spanish when communicating with him. He told me that it was very hard and many times he came home crying but after that he worked hard and had good grades and graduated from college. Now he is a successful businessman and he served for many years in the US military( Captain in the Army, retired). His words to me were," I am glad that my father did what he did because it allowed me to have the opportunity to be a success." Terrible Ted was wrong about how he said it but was right in what he was saying. Being tolerant is good but do not go over board. Disclaimer: I am not in anyway against Spanish or Hispanic people but it is common sense to learn the language of the counrty that your are going to live and work in. btw.. the concert was very good and I was quite pleased at the performances( by Kiss and Ted). Ted's Bass player is hispanic also and seem to egg him on as well. I personally think he should have apologized for how he said it but made it clear that he has a right to his opinion. ------------------ Houston Rockets Forever!! In Rudy We Trust [This message has been edited by Dennis2112 (edited July 21, 2000).]
People would also probably b**** about tax dollars being spent to teach Spanish speakers English, so what's the difference? ------------------ Going for the Rolls Royce! visit www.swirve.com
At least the people who were taught english would have a much better chance of getting an education or finding a good career. The difference is giving a person a fighting chance to help themselves and not giving them handouts that do nothing but harm them. ------------------ Houston Rockets Forever!! In Rudy We Trust [This message has been edited by Dennis2112 (edited July 21, 2000).]
Free speech? Wasn't he going to accept compensation for performing there? They asked him to conduct himself in a certain manner and he declined that stipulation. He can stand on a street corner and say whatever he likes and Pace wouldn't mind, but he made the decision to refuse the contract that was presented to him. I would like to know how his lawyers plan on winning this on a free speech infringement basis. J Williams faces an upcoming suspension for a violation of a known NBA policy that is probably buried in some contract language. J Williams knew the consequences of the contract that he signed and will accept them. Ted refused to accept all of the language in a contract presented to him and that is his right to decline, but not a violation of his free speech. Mango ------------------ 1. Put new topics in the proper forum 2. Use clear wording for new threads 3. No duplicate threads 4. Conduct yourself as an adult The Serious Police are watching Donate Blood or be assimilated!
In most European countries school children are taught 3-4 languages. Schools should be teaching English along with many other languages in which speaking it could be helpful to the American economy, or helping us reach services to additional citizens. In Northern California, where I am lving for the next 10 hours or so, in addition to English, schools should be teaching Spanish, Chinese, and Japanese, just to name a few. I do give George W. Bush credit for recognizing being able to speaking English along with other languages is the direction we should go to help further our standing in the global economy. As others pointed out, it is not a violation of free speech to take away a stage and a microphone from that bigoted idiot, he can say whatever he wants to nobody who will listen on public land I would think. ------------------ "The Rockets were ahead of the Suns by 20 late in game 2 of the series, but when the going got tough, we just Pippened . We would not be done in the series though."
The Motor City Madman will NOT be allowed to open for KISS in the Woodlands next month. LULAC has succeeded in getting him banned! Any thoughts? Is this right? http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/ae/music/pop/608265 Nugent scratched from concert By MICHAEL D. CLARK Copyright 2000 Houston Chronicle Stranglehold. Paralyzed. Homebound. Choose your favorite Ted Nugent hit. It seems to describe the rocker's prospects of opening for KISS at the Cynthia Woods Mitchell Pavilion on Aug. 22. Pace Entertainment released a statement Tuesday saying the concert promoter and Nugent's management both confirm that the Motor City Madman will not be playing with KISS in the Houston area this time around. The decision is the result of Nugent's onstage rant about an English-language-only America when he played with KISS in Houston last April. The sole opening band for Aug. 22 will be Skid Row. The decision has left Nugent fuming, the local League of United Latin American Citizens vindicated and Pace Entertainment closing the books on the entire matter. Last week, Bob Roux, Pace Entertainment regional VP of SFX Music, said Nugent could play only if he agreed to sign a conduct agreement attached to the concert contract. Nugent didn't sign the agreement, but thought he would be able to play on the bill just as he had at more than 90 other concerts with KISS since last March. Now Nugent concedes that is not going to happen. He also hinted that his dismissal in Houston might not be the end of the debate. "(It's the) land of the free, home of the brave, 'cept for white guys, I guess," said Nugent in an e-mail to the Houston Chronicle following the confirmation he would not be playing. "The lawyers are hammering as we speak." Doug Banker, Nugent's manager of 20 years, said that he had never been presented with a "sign to play" agreement concerning the Michigan-based rocker. He called the stipulation for Nugent "unjust and an infringement on his First Amendment rights." He declined to comment on any legal action that Nugent might consider against Pace, but said Nugent is exploring his options. "In view of the fact that they are requiring us to sign (the agreement), Ted will not play," Banker said Wednesday. "Ted won't compromise his values and beliefs." Pace Entertainment had no other comment on the matter beyond the one-sentence statement announcing that Nugent would not be playing. That statement finished a "will he or won't he play" saga that began June 30 when Pace announced that the KISS farewell tour would be returning to the Houston area. The tour first passed through Houston on April 1 with both Nugent and Skid Row opening. At that show, Nugent, dressed in a Confederate flag T-shirt, said that people living in the United States should leave if they don't learn English. He appeared to be addressing Mexicans in particular by speaking a few words of Spanish, followed by his thoughts about the "abusive Mexican government." The remarks left Woodlands Pavilion officials vowing that Nugent would never play the venue again and LULAC officials calling for a boycott of his merchandise and tours. News that Nugent would not be returning with KISS was met with relief and victory by local LULAC officials. "We are pleased with the courageous action taken by The Woodlands," says Johnny Mata, LULAC's District 18 director of media and communication. "It shows that a united community can correct any wrong." Following the KISS-Nugent date in April, local LULAC districts worked with the association's national leaders to organize a boycott of Nugent's concerts and albums. LULAC is still upholding that boycott. ------------------ A little bit better than I used to be
I think they have a right to ban Ted, but I do have a question: Would they ban a hispanic performer (or any other person) for saying something equally derogatory about "white" people (language or customs or whatever)? Don't ask me what that would be, because I don't know. Is this a general policy? If so, fine. If not, it's a double standard. As long as their consistent, I don't really care. ------------------
My complaint was spending money on teachers who teach reagular classes by using the spanish language. I am NOT against classes that teach other languages. I am happy that we can learn different languages and everybody should speak more than 1. I do not believe it is wise or beneficial to teach an american math, Social Studes, or science class in spanish just because the kids cannot speak english. Teach them english so they can be successful in the regular classes. What incentive do the kids have to learn english if all their classes are taught in spanish already? ------------------ Houston Rockets Forever!! In Rudy We Trust [This message has been edited by Dennis2112 (edited July 22, 2000).]
Sir is exactly correct. By 2010, Houston will be nearly 60% Hispanic. Learning to speak English is actually an international thing because of all the technology that comes from here, but learning a variety of languages is a good thing. If any of you who complain about the teaching of Spanish in the classroom knew anything about education, you would realize that Spanish is taugh in conjunction with English giving most of these kids a much greater advantage than those of us who do not speak more than 1 language. I can't count the number of times I wished I spoke Spanish so I could better communicate with people! I would love to have been taught both when I was a child. The classes in Texas, in particular, that teach Spanish are "English As a Second Language" classes because they realize their parents and family members likely speak Spanish at home. Teaching the child to speak only English would be counterproductive and overly difficult because they do not receive the support for it at home. Rather than closing their eyes to the problem and forcing kids to try and speak a language without the support of their first language (Spanish in this case), teachers have learned that it is better for the kids and the family that they learn BOTH. Kids can be fluent in more than one language which opens up FAR more career opportunities than just speaking one. ------------------ Save Our Rockets and Comets SaveOurRockets.com
Dennis: I understand your frustration, but what good would it do to teach a child in English if he/she can't speak it in the first place. Let's say a child is a US citizen born here to parents who immigrated here from El Salvador or Mexico (this is quite common). Now, that child is 5 and it is time for kindergarten. Once the child gets to school, the teacher realizes she can't speak English. What are they supposed to do? Do they: a. send them home and say you don't get an education? b. speak to them in English and hope they get it when, in all likelyhood they will fail because they can't speak English. c. place them in a class that teaches in Spanish while they learn English in another classroom. By the time most children have had English for a year or two, they no longer need the Spanish-only classes because they are fluent in Engligh. But, had they not had those classes, they would be living at home or on the street. It isn't a perfect solution but this isn't a perfect world. It is better to educate a kid by whatever means necessary than to ignore their needs simply on principle. It isn't the child's fault they cannot speak English so we should not punish them for it. They have classes for kids who aren't as smart as other kids as well as advanced classes for those who are a little ahead. A good education system adapts to the needs of its children. In this case, teaching a child English while they continue to take their other classes in Spanish is the best solution to the problem. One other example I didn't include. What do you do if the school is 99% Hispanic? There are several schools in Houston who have that problem (if it is a problem). What do you do if the majority speak only Spanish? Do you simply deny them an education and tell them to hit the streets or do you bend your moralistic stance on speaking English and find a compromise? I would hope we would all prefer the latter. ------------------ Save Our Rockets and Comets SaveOurRockets.com
TraJ: Most concert contract "riders" (legal adendums to standard contracts) include some language about what behavior is allowable during a performance. Most of it is limited to physical destruction but it can include what is said as well. Any artist, black, white, Latino or otherwise, are held to the same contractual standards and the same community standards by the promoter. If they aren't and promoters don't keep their acts from acting inappropriately, the venues won't have them back and that costs the artist and the promoter a bunch of $$$. ------------------ Save Our Rockets and Comets SaveOurRockets.com
The thoughts on the merits of teaching children English/Spanish are nice, but I don't think that's the point. Ted Nugent got banned from performing in the Woodlands because of his political views. I was at the San Antonio show when he made the same comments (I would wager that Hispanics make up a larger percentage of the SA population than they do Houston), and the city/arena/etc is not taking these same measures (he also sings a cool song about Janet Reno, I wish he'd release it as a single). So he said "if you can't speak English, get out of the country". Big freakin deal. Is that nearly as bad as anything Eminem, Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, etc say at their shows every night? I guess Ice-T singing about killing cops is okay, but Nugent wanting people to learn English is frowned upon? Was Ice-T ever banned from performing anywhere? You can go on and on about the CWM Pavillion being a privately owned facility, yadda yadda yadda, but you can't escape the fact that he was banned because someone didn't like (and most likely totally mis-interpreted) his political views. He's been doing this act at something like 90 different cities in the US this year and last (the speech is rehearsed, he does it every night), and nobody else has taken such drastic measure. I thought people may be a little surprised by this, but it looks like I'm the only one so far. ------------------ A little bit better than I used to be
