http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/27/world/asia/27pstan.html?_r=1&hp I think this article is important to reference the many people who say its Muslims vs USA/west. Here we have a Muslim country with millions of Muslims in trouble now and seeking aid, help, whatever they can get in a very desperate situation. Yet the Taliban is saying its unacceptable for foreign aid and hints at an attack on them for people helping muslims. Without this help, those people will suffer horribly, millions of muslims, all of them want the help, need the help, and take it graciously. This shows that its not muslims vs usa/west, its taliban vs usa/west, and its taliban vs muslims as well. They have a social and political view(where in the quran can they even justify or manipulate not accepting foreign aid in a desperate situation, this is just their political agenda and views and have nothing to do with the religion). The people the al-quaeda and taliban kill the most are muslims, its just a fact, yet these are the people the minority that are pretty much enemies of the muslims are the ones who are the representatives of islam to some of the media and population and its a major misconception and I hope this article shows just how much
ITs not just we, its not towards UK and USA, its against indian aid, its against anything, its against muslim aid even, these guys are friends to no one, they are exclusivist and just a problem, thats the point, they are against muslims as much as anyone
It's not only the Taliban. It's also the Hamas, the Saudi government, the Iranian government, the Syrian government, the "religious police" in Indonesia, the Muslim extremists in the south of Thailand, the Muslim extremists in the Philippines, the Muslim extremists in Somalia, and so on and so on. What is the only thing they have in common?
Aren't you getting tired of these type of responds SJC? :grin: What do all the Catholic priests who sexually abused Children have in common?.... Or the Nazi’s in the Second world war, or the Christian extremist that killed George Tiller, or most people in the African civil wars who kill each other (Kenya, Congo, Rwanda)? Exactly that they are crazy, and a pathetic excuse for human beings. We have had this argument many times before; Those people use Islam as an excuse to achieve their goal.
I would say they have in common that they live in a sexually repressed environment which furthers tendencies of sexual anomalies. And the environment is so repressed because of the way the religion is interpreted by the people who have been ruling the Catholic church. Yes, but the big difference is that in most of these cases, the reasoning given for why they acted in such a crazy way was not based on religion. The Nazis did not act out of a religious motivation, and the killings in the African civil wars you mentioned are also not based on religion, but on other factors (belonging to certain tribes, greed, etc.). The actions of the Taliban, the crazy Saudis, the "religious police" in Indonesia, the Muslim extremists in Thailand, the terrorists who killed people in New York, Madrid, London, etc. etc. are "justified" by their reasoning through their interpretation of Islam and Sharia law. That is a big difference.
But basically they had it in them to do those horrible things right? You believe that those people (if they weren't priests) would have been done nothing wrong in their life? Who cares what reason they give, What matters is what the reason is for them acting like that. The difference between us is that I do not think that them being Muslim has anything to do with the things they do (except for them to use as an excuse). Most of their terrible acts are caused by other motivations (trying to get power in most cases, or revenge). I believe the main reason why terrorist do what they do is that they do not have the power that they want, or in some cases they have the power and want to keep it, and fear is a good way to keep power (just look at What Bush did during his second election). The attack of 9-11 had nothing to do with the teaching of Islam; it was because of the influence of America in the Middle east. The power the USA has in that area and the terrorist want that power. So they attacked. It had nothing to do with them being Muslims. P.s. the killing of George Tiller was based on religion.
I don't know. But there seem to be more occurences of abuse in these circles than in the average population. Whether that is because people who have a natural inclination to do this choose this career path or because the catholic church environment pushes people in that direction, or both - I am not sure. I think you are a good guy, and you want to believe the best. But I also think you are wrong here. How can you say it had nothing to do with them being Muslims when many of them were trained together in a mosque in Hamburg? Here is an excerpt from a book about them: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/AR2005042801315.html Saying that the attack has nothing to do with Islam is simply crazy and delusional, sorry arno_ed. A lot of these people were normal people until they became religiously indoctrinated by Islamists. And here is more on how this has to do with Islam: Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ced-job-tolerating-racism.html##ixzz0xoDfQxDB
One of the guys I work with is German. I also work with a couple people that are muslim. I'm walking over to Lester (German) and telling him that if I ran into him on the weekend, I'd be way more scared of him than Shahriq (muslim) and Ben (muslim).
I wouldn't be intimidated by any of them. <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qse_wf57tZM?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qse_wf57tZM?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
I also think you are a goog guy, and If you ever are in the Netherlands let me know so we can get a drink somewhere and discuss the Rockets. You know what is funny, in general most people know me as a person who has a very negative view on people. but for some reason on this forum I look like a very positive person. Trust me I'm not. I do not want to believe the best, I believe to many people have it in them to do terrible things if they experience certain circumstances. For example I'm 100% sure that the things that happened in the WW2 can happen again, all you need is such a situation and a charismatic person. I believe many people who are part of these terrorist organisations want things to change, they are in bad situations and feel that they are forced to do something about it (That does not in any way excuse for doing those terrible things). Like I said I believe the situation those people are in (and the fact that that small group who are terrorists are crazy since most people in that situation do not try and kill people) causes them to do those things. Poverty, oppression by other governments are more important then religion IMHO. If the Islam was the religion of the most powerful countries in the world we would be talking about Christian terrorists. I'm 100% sure of that. Do the leaders of those terrorist groups use Islam to influence the weak minded? Of course, but that is not the fault of the religion Islam, and definitely not of the normal Muslim. I disagree, and I think I'm not delusional and maybe a bit crazy :grin: . Did people make it about Islam vs America, yes of course they did (both on the American side and on the terrorist side). Since it would help them gather support. However I believe the reason they attacked America was not because they were Muslims and Americans are Christians, it was because of the involvement of the US in the Middle east. And if you want control over that region you have to go through the US, and that is what the terrorist tried. If a Muslim country had the power in that area like the us had and acted like the US did, I'm sure that they would also be attacked by them (just look at all the violence between Sunni and shi'a).
Are we now saying Germans in general are more dangerous than Muslims? (smiley banging his head to the wall. to lazy to look it up) i'm really getting tired of this, Germans in General are not more dangerous than Muslims in general, or more dangerous than Islamic Germans, they are also not less dangerous. This generalisation is what I hate about the Anti-Muslim discussions, but now the people who defend Islam use the same arguments about a different group. Why can't people accept that people in general are the same, Their religion, nationality, sexual preference, favourite basketball team, colour of their eyes DOESN'T matter. Every group you have complete idiots who do terrible things, and in every group you have very friendly people.
I agree that it is not the fault of the normal Muslim, but there must be a reason why most terrorist attacks nowadays are committed in the name of Islam, and that is the only common link between many of these attacks (committed not only by poor and stupid people from poor countries, but also by rich kids, by educated people, etc. - only common link is Islam). Is Islam possibly, at least in its current state, more susceptible to being abused for purposes of terror and discrimination, and if yes, why? My answer is yes, I am not sure about the why. Don't forget that they also bombed trains in Madrid and London. And a Dutch politician got killed by an islamist. A Danish cartoonist got attacked by an islamist. Neither the Dutch politician nor the Danish cartoonist is involved in the Middle East. There is only one common link.
