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Taiwan Protests

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by SacTown, Mar 19, 2014.

  1. SacTown

    SacTown Member

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    Sound Familiar?

    Hundreds of students occupy Taiwan's Legislature to protest China pact

    Hundreds of students remained barricaded in Taiwan's Legislature early Wednesday in protest of the ruling party's push for a trade pact with China, which demonstrators claim will hurt the island.

    The protesters, mostly university students, entered the main assembly hall inside the Legislative Yuan in Taipei on Tuesday night and blocked the entrances with chairs, according to images and accounts filed from the scene with CNN iReport.

    Police responded but had not dispersed the protesters, who also filled the streets around the Legislature in the center of Taipei.

    The students said they plan to occupy the Legislature until Friday's session, when the pact was to be deliberated.

    Taiwan's state news agency reported that 38 police officers were injured when more than 400 protesters took over the Legislature.

    Four protesters were arrested in two unsuccessful attempts to evict them, the news agency reported. Police said there were more than 2,000 protesters both inside and outside the building, with a equal number of officers on the scene.

    We do not want to clash with the police," said protester and iReporter Shanny Chang, 19. "We just have to let the government know that never try to fool the people."

    One CNN iReporter said that after the protesters took over, hundreds gathered outside the building, with some making speeches and singing songs.

    In a video, a young woman sings Bob Dylan's song "The Times They are a-Changin'," which many associate with the protest spirit of the 1960s.

    "She played the Dylan song because she thinks the lyrics match the ongoing events happening in Taiwan," said iReporter George Chang, 24, who shot the video. "Bob Dylan isn't really that popular in Taiwan, especially not to the 8th grade generation, what Taiwanese call children born after 1991, but to the older generations I think he isn't a stranger to them."

    The trade pact was signed last year in Shanghai to ease investment and trade between the two longtime adversaries, mainland China and Taiwan.

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/19/world/asia/taiwan-student-protests/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

    [​IMG]
     
  2. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    wait what was the trade agreement that was bad
     
  3. jdhu

    jdhu Member

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    I think these "students" need some Economics courses.
     
  4. jdhu

    jdhu Member

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    Rent-seekers will always be upset at the loss of rents.
     
  5. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    The agreement will allow both sides to freely invest in the other side. This got the Taiwan independent group worried that it will eventually lead to the reunification of the two sides is my guess. China is Taiwan's biggest trading partner and the ties will just grow stronger each year, I can see some sort of common wealth type relationship down the line.
     
  6. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    Isn't that great economically for Taiwan, I mean China has all the capital right now

    didn't tons of Taiwanese investors turned into billionaires from expanding their businesses into China
     
  7. jdhu

    jdhu Member

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    Have you taken Economics? I know that comes across like I'm a douchebag, but well, your post shows to me that you haven't. Trade isn't a zero-sum game.

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, since your 2nd sentence seems alludes to the benefits of trade.
     
  8. jdhu

    jdhu Member

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    Yeah. I am from Taiwan, and my parents are KMT voters, so I'm sure that, and my Econ degree, have influenced my thinking. I think it's a shame that these students don't know what they are protesting for and against, especially given that Taiwan's economy has not performed too well lately.

    The KMT has said that this protest was orchestrated by the opposition DPP. I am inclined to agree.
     
  9. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    no i havent actually, took Eco100 course but that a long time ago

    I don't know anything about the trade, I was merely asking what it was because the article didn't say much about it
     
  10. jdhu

    jdhu Member

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    OK, sorry, I didn't mean to be a jerk. Your post implied that only one side/country gains from trade. The whole point of trade is that everyone wins (well, there will be losing industries, such as say, Taiwanese low-end manufacturing to cheaper Chinese labor). But overall, all countries gain.

    Anyway, the opposition party (DPP) apparently wanted a line-by-line review of the trade agreement, which the adminstration (KMT president) obviously opposes, in part because the deal has already been passed by the Legislature. To analogize, it would be like if Pres. Obama's administration signed a deal with South Korea, and Congress approved it, only to have protesters seize Congress asking for a "re-do."
     
  11. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    Just another indicator that Taiwan's independence from China will be formal sooner rather than later. The young in Taiwan prefer complete separation from the mainland even if the trade agreement most likely benefits them in the long run.
     
  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I think it is now inevitable that Taiwan will unite with the PRC eventually. How fast that happens depends on what sort of political changes happen in the PRC.
     
  13. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I wouldn't take this protest as a sign that most of the young in Taiwan want outright independence. There are many who do but there are many who want unification and many who don't care either way.
     
  14. KingLeoric

    KingLeoric Member

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    Time for China to pull a Putin.
     
  15. jdhu

    jdhu Member

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    Disagree. In fact, completely disagree, because formal declaration of independence WOULD trigger war.

    The recent trend has been closer ties, such as direct flights and this pact. I see more of a Hong Kong-style setup in the not-too-distance future.
     
  16. jdhu

    jdhu Member

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    Would be impossible. If China invaded Taiwan, without Taiwan first declaring independence, the U.S would respond. I think it's fair to say that China is more of a "stakeholder" in the world today, than is Russia (point being that China has more to lose from acting like a rogue).
     
  17. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    I thought Taiwan is independent from China, is it not? What are you talking about?
     
  18. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    Taiwan is de facto independent from China. How formal do you want it to be?
     
  19. KingLeoric

    KingLeoric Member

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    Yea it is like playing Dota, when US is busy ganking around the map China has been farming quietly for decades and will probably continue for a while until he completes his build. Late game is going to be fun.
     
  20. Spacemoth

    Spacemoth Contributing Member

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    Taiwan has a two party system, and believe it or not the separation is even wider and more bitter than it is here. The Green party draws voters on the issue of de facto vs. formal separation from China all by itself. The Blue party (KMT) is the more liberal, less flaming side. They are the ones who will compromise their anti-China sentiment for the sake of the economy and increased trade with the mainland.

    I'm sure there are people who will speak out (and violently, you can tell a Green party partisan by this quality) against my words, but my analogy is this: in America you have some Republicans that will always be Republican no matter what because of a certain issue such as abortion, or gay marriage, or the second amendment. Aka moral voters. Well, in Taiwan, the moral issue is independence.

    The only difference is that formal vs de facto independence (aka self-governance, the system currently in place) is actually a huge deal economically. Once the Blue party president took over and opened direct flights with the mainland (yes they were banned until 2008), Taipei's airport gained a TON of business, and reciprocally Hong Kong lost a ton as the former #1 site for transfers.

    So to exacerbate this difference of opinion on a single political issue, both sides have erected propaganda machines (those gleaming bastions of democracy) through print, radio, and television to continually slant issues to their side and mercilessly attack the other side, usually on issues of corruption (which of course occurs on both sides). So basically it's like Fox News vs MSNBC.

    Essentially, you have to take every Taiwan-originated political article with a grain of salt. In fact, take every opinion of every friend you have from or with parents from Taiwan with a grain of salt. Go read the Economist or something. Even if the Caucasian perspective is less well-informed than the Asian one, at least it isn't biased as all get out. The article posted by the OP, then, is an example of Green party propaganda. Nothing more. Don't read into it the sentiments of the people of Taiwan, because those again are extremely divided. It's just like in America; huge populations of people are manipulated to think a certain way without any ability to intuit the reason why they think that way.
     
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