SUVs are a major issue to me. They: <ul>[*]kill me in a collision: Federal information shows that although light trucks account for one-third of all registered vehicles, traffic crashes between a light truck and any other vehicle now account for the majority of fatalities in vehicle-to-vehicle collisions. Of the 5,259 fatalities caused when light trucks struck cars in 1996, 81 percent of the fatally injured were occupants of the car.(9) In multiple-vehicle crashes, the occupants of the car are four times more likely to be killed than the occupants of the SUV.(10) In a side-impact collision with an SUV, car occupants are 27 times more likely to die.(11)[*]clog my air with pounds of pollution: Compare a 2000 4.8L Suburban with a 2000 2.8L A4. An A4 with a 2.8L engine is a pretty hot car. The Suburban puts out 63.8 - 121.1 pounds of pollution per 15,000 miles. The 2.8L A4 puts out 12.3 - 12.9 pounds of pollution per 15k miles.[/list] Regulation works. Chevy sells two 2 versions of the 4.8L model. One for sale in CA, MA, NY, VT. One for sale everywhere else. The model with "California emissions" puts out 39 - 49.6 pounds per 15k. The one for sale everywhere else puts out 63.8 - 121.8. Chevy makes a clean 4.8L surburban, but it only sells it where the law demands it. If Chevy can get away with it, they sell the dirty one. Bumper height standards do not apply to "light trucks". The Department of Transportation regulates bumper height so that all cars must be within a specified bumper height range. That way, in a collision, the bumpers can absorb some of the impact. SUVs are exempt. The DoT specifies a bumper performance requirement for 5 mph collisions. SUVs are exempt. We know that Chevy chooses profits over pollution when given the choice in 46 states. I reckon they choose profits over safe bumpers too. All I want is federal regulations for SUV emissions and bumper height. They already exist for every other kind of car. For the 1999 calendar year, 48.3% of vehicles sold were exempt. Outrageous. If half the sales are "light trucks", then "light trucks" have gotta follow the rules too. [This message has been edited by jamcracker (edited May 17, 2001).]
Or, as your statistics show, you could buy/drive a SUV and live. Or, you could drive your enviromental friendly vehicle and die? Seems like a pretty simple choice to me. I choose life, and I'll deal with the rest. ------------------ In the end there will be no judges...only witnesses to my greatness.
I would love to own a SUV, but I feel I would be hypocrite to own one. Anyone that complains about pollution and has a SUV needs their SUV stuck in a compactor. I think there should a luxery tax on these things. How many people actually use these things? And the same thing with damn trucks. Half the people I work with own two trucks and use them both just for work. Get a ****ing car ... do the environment a favor. If you fall in this catagory, don't b**** about gas prices. This bull**** of "I like to look about traffic" and "I want something safer" is just a crock. Now that everyone owns trucks and SUV's, I can't see above anyone anymore. I think I'll go buy a humvee. Yes, thats what I need. And when everyone owns one of those, I think I'll just skip to a stripped down tank. ------------------ If Bill Gates had a dime for every time Windows crashed... Oh, Wait!! He Does!
Why are cars OK and SUVs bad? What about old cars vs. new SUVs? What about people who move stuff alot? Should they just make more trips and eat more gas and create more pollution? Or why not say that anyone who drives a gasoline car should dump it in the compacter and get an electric car? They are affordable too. Why set the line between cars and SUVs, and not between electric cars and gas cars? ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
Actually Ghost, that Hummer you're referring too only has a higher ground clearance, that physical height if the vehicle is not much, if not the same of the larger SUVs. Looks like your going to the Unimog... ------------------ In the end there will be no judges...only witnesses to my greatness. [This message has been edited by Curly (edited May 17, 2001).]
Why do we have federal regulations for bumper height? Too many people were dying in car accidents. Consumer advocacy groups demanded federal action. So, the DoT started regulating safety standards for passenger cars.
SUVs are classified as "light trucks", not "cars". "Light trucks" do not have to follow federal guidelines for emissions, bumper height, or fuel efficiency. "electric cars" vs "gas cars" is a different issue. All I want is for the vehicles classified as "light trucks", that accounted for half the sales in 1999, to conform to federal safety and emission standards.
Because gas-powered vehicles have proven themselves to be a good method of transportation for both everyday driving and long distances. They are wide-spread and the infrastructure (gas stations, etc.) is in place. Electric isn't there yet. SUVs, on the other hand, are for the most part a new phenomenon. And they are used almost entirely in everyday situations where a smaller car could do the same job (people who haul stuff alot usually go with a truck). If you drive an SUV as opposed to, say, a sedan, you might burn 1,000 more gallons of gas per year. It is a little silly to complain about environmental causes or Bush's choice to drill for oil in Alaska, while going out of your way to waste all that energy in a car getting 12 miles to the gallon. ------------------ We used to laugh at Grandpa when he'd head off and go fishing. But we wouldn't be laughing that evening when he'd come back with some w**** he picked up in town.
It is a little silly to complain about environmental causes or Bush's choice to drill for oil in Alaska, while going out of your way to waste all that energy in a car getting 12 miles to the gallon. [/B][/QUOTE] I highly doubt that you will ever hear of a SUV owner complaining about emmisions or fuel economy. It's all about choice. If you choose to purchase a SUV, hopefully you have both a reason and the knowledge of the vehicles fuel usage. As in the law, ignorance is not an excuse. If you're pissed about how much it cost to opporate an SUV, don't buy one, 'cause it isn't going to be any cheaper over night. If you do not like the obvious fact that a SUV will put out more pounds of pollution per mile, then don't buy an SUV. But do not tell me or any other owner of an SUV that I should not own one, if I have made that decision. When is the last time that you saw a Camry draging the bumper while trying to tow a trailer or a boat. How about the last time you saw more than 5 people in a Metro having the time of their life, becuase they saved 110 pounds of pollution on their 15K mile trip? I don't think so. Granted, there is a high percentage of SUV owners that utilize 10% of the vehicles potential. But think about this, what if there was no such thing as a SUV, they would all be driving station wagons. Some people just need to use them, would you then complain about station wagons? Were they just a fad? I don't see to many of them any more do you? Must be because everyone was so worried about their emmision control huh. And why pick on the light truck? Would there be any difference if they were Heavy Duty Trucks? I doubt it. There is always someone out there that is thinks they are the high and mighty. Feeling the need to tell the majority that they are responsible for the end of the earth. Well, I piss on that. Drive your little gas bubble, and cuss me out when you can't see around me, and get blown off the road when I pass. I'll spend my money, tow my trailer, pull my boat, and have a vehicle full of my friends. You just keep living in your save the world life, driving your Metro, Civic, or what ever it is and have a great time doing it. Some day, you will save the Earth. PS, owned a '91 and a '92 Honda Accord EX. Probably one of the best cars ever made. But you know what, I chose to also own Trucks and SUVs, why, because I have a use for them. ------------------ In the end there will be no judges...only witnesses to my greatness.
Curly, I'm not out to ban big cars. I'm not out to ban cars with towing capacity. Consumers want big cars. They have passengers to move and things to tow. Consumers have very valid reasons for wanting big cars. I believe that car manufacturers can produce cleaner, lower-bumpered SUVs that could tow and carry 8 passengers. Chevy is required by law to sell a clean Suburban in California. So, they make a special Chevy for sale in California with less emissions. If required by law, I figure Chevy can make a low-bumpered Suburban that can tow and carry 8 adults. The only thing SUVs lose by conforming to federal bumper-height and emissions regulations is ground clearance. Ground clearance is only good for off-road stuff. Ground clearance makes it harder to load/unload passengers. Ground clearance doesn't help your towing ability. You can have your big car, you can tow your boat, no problem. All I want is federal regulation for California emissions and a lower bumper.
I own a truck. In 2 years, I've put about 15,000 miles on it. I don't have a choice because both my playing music and moving jewelry showcases for shows (both my jobs) require having something to haul them with. I try to walk or ride my bike as much as possible to offset the driving and I work from home. I think there should be specific safety requirements for SUV's that are different from trucks and cars. Trucks, in particular full-size trucks, have stringent safety standards because their target market is men who need them for hauling things and/or driving in rugged conditions. Personally, I wouldn't want an SUV if I needed space. They don't have much. Trucks and vans (especially vans) have much more room for moving and hauling than SUV's. In addition, they have higher towing capacities. ------------------ The internet is about the free exchange and sale of other people's ideas. - Futurama
I'm not proud of it, but I own a Ford Explorer. My Uncle hit it big in the stock market and gave it to us. This turned out to be a Godsend for me. My car before this was a 1976 Chevy Nova that wouldn't get over the mountains, a huge problem considering I'm going to college on the exact opposite side of this state (Colorado). The nice thing about it for me is the fact that I am a drummer and need the space to carry things. Like Jeff, I too try to either carpool with other people or ride my bike when possible to off-set the use. But hey compared to my Nova (12 mpg), the Explorer is better when it comes to gas consumption (17 mpg). ------------------ Nuggets4 Today the Nuggets announced that Dan Issel would be back as head coach next season. In related news, the NBA announced that the Nuggets have been mathematically eliminated from the 2002 NBA playoffs already.
Are you joking? The Marlboro man coulda never roped a cow without that cigarette. All vehicles classified as "light trucks" conform to a set of federal guidelines. The Ranger and the F-350 are regulated by the same federal standards. Jeff, Point me at the "stringent safety standards" for "full-size" trucks. [This message has been edited by jamcracker (edited May 18, 2001).]
I'm a Texan. I love pickup trucks. Pickup trucks aren't passenger cars like Excursions and Suburbans. So, make an exception for pickup trucks. A small jeep, like a 2-door Wrangler or Montero, isn't a passenger car like a Grand Cherokee or a Land Rover. Maybe we can make a distinction by cubic feet of interior space? Say that a vehicle can only have a high bumper if it has less X cubic ft of interior space? How about just forcing bumper heights for SUVs larger than X interior cubic feet to conform with car bumper height guidelines?
screw it, everyone here know's I'm a die hard democrat, but my parents own two suv's. They don't know better, I'm sorry. guys, we know we are dealing with businesses here. Anyone remember Fight Club when Norton was talking about his car company calculating what would cost more ? Dead lives or lawsuits ? That's a true story. My friend works for a car company, and he/she says that that is how they determine whether they recall a vehicle or not. Do the lawsuits exceed the cost of recall ? ------------------ "norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."
the idea that people want SUVs to tow big cargo is a bunch of garbage!! Majority of the SUVs i see are driven by ONE person who are a soccer mom/dad (this is my observation but i am sure statistics will bacl me up). That is a waste of space on the road and it really irritates me when i see these drivers, who never learned to drive properly, on the road. The government, if it was smart (a big question)would start regulating these vehicles. SUVs are useless and serve no purpose except as a status symbol and in a PERFECT world they would be banned ------------------
Old cars?? You're using the exception to ther rules here. Considering less and less are being used, I don't think we have to worry about old cars in the future. Perhaps if they start remanufacturing these "old cars", then you can use this as your arguement. Also, SUV's are not a good way to move. Perhaps trucks, yes. Perhaps go rent a U-haul for 30 bucks. You can get it all in one or two loads. Hybribs sounds wonderful. Just not very convienent at the moment. ------------------ If Bill Gates had a dime for every time Windows crashed... Oh, Wait!! He Does!
Even Dick Gephardt's?!!? Disclaimer for the red-assed: I do not know if Dick Gephardt drives an SUV. I know he showed up at a press conference in one last week and his press secretary dismissed the seeming hypocrisy by claiming the Democrats didn't "say anything about changing people's lifestyles". So, I thought I would make a little joke at Dick's expense. I am not implying that any or all Republicans (or myself) are immune to hypocrisy and would not like to start a side discussion on that subject. I hope you laughed at the joke, but if not, I hope you rolled your eyes and moved on instead of preparing a nine-paragraph rebuttal to it. Thank you. That is all. Other thought: supporting an argument with generalized, anecdotal evidence looks and sounds childish. Disclaimer: this practice is prevalent among both ideologies (conservative and liberal). Were it exclusive to liberalism, Rush Limbaugh's show would last for exactly nine minutes a week. [This message has been edited by BrianKagy (edited May 18, 2001).]
Heh... anyone who's read the car thread knows my opinion on this one. No use to beat a dead horse, but they're still generally unnecessary and polluting (ocassional exceptions for need admitted). ------------------ I would believe only in a God who could dance. - Friedrich Nietzsche Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001
