The last paragraph is kinda scary though. By Alan Elsner Thu Jul 14, 2:10 PM ET WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Support for Osama bin Laden and suicide bombings have fallen sharply in much of the Muslim world, according to a multicountry poll released on Thursday. The survey by the Pew Research Center examined public opinion in six predominantly Muslim nations: Morocco, Pakistan, Turkey, Indonesia, Jordan and Lebanon. It also examined views in nine North American and European countries as well as in India and China. In all, more than 17,000 people were questioned either by telephone of face-to-face. "There's declining support for terrorism in the Muslim countries and support for Osama bin Laden is declining. There's also less support for suicide bombings," said Pew Center director Andrew Kohut. "This is good news, but still there are substantial numbers who support bin Laden in some of these countries," he told a news conference. In Morocco, 26 percent of the public now say they have a lot or some confidence in bin Laden, down from 49 percent in a similar poll two years ago. In Lebanon, where both Muslims and Christians took part in the survey, only 2 percent expressed some confidence in the Saudi-born al Qaeda leader, down from 14 percent in 2003. In Turkey, bin Laden's support has fallen to 7 percent from 15 percent in the past two years. In Indonesia, it has dropped to 35 percent from 58 percent. However, in Jordan, confidence in bin Laden, who took responsibility for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States and many other attacks, rose to 60 percent from 55 percent. In Pakistan, it went to 51 percent from 45 percent. A similar picture emerged when respondents were asked whether suicide bombings were justifiable. In Morocco, 13 percent said they often or sometimes could be justified, down from 40 percent in 2004. MORE JORDANIANS SUPPORT BOMBINGS In Indonesia, 15 percent expressed that view, down from 27 percent in the summer of 2002. Support for suicide bombings also fell in Pakistan and dropped dramatically in Lebanon. However, support rose in Jordan, to 57 percent from 43 percent in 2002. Kohut noted there had been devastating attacks on civilians in Indonesia, Morocco and Turkey in recent years and a rash of assassinations and bombings recently in Lebanon. Both in western countries and the Muslim world, respondents expressed fears about Islamic extremism. Seventy-three percent in Morocco and 52 percent in Pakistan saw Islamic extremism as a threat to their country. The figure was 84 percent in Russia, 78 percent in Germany, and an identical 70 percent in Britain and the United States. The poll was taken well before last week's bombings in London. When asked what caused Islamic extremism, 40 percent in Lebanon and 38 percent in Jordan blamed U.S. policies and influence; in Morocco, Pakistan and Turkey, respondents were more likely to blame poverty, unemployment or poor education. Despite terrorism fears, majorities in Britain, the United States, France, Canada and Russia and pluralities in Spain and Poland expressed favorable views about Muslims. But in Germany and the Netherlands, opinion swung to an unfavorable view. Fifty-one percent of those surveyed in the Netherlands expressed an unfavorable view of Muslims. In Germany, 47 percent were unfavorable, compared with 40 percent who expressed favorable views. Anti-Jewish sentiment was overwhelming in the Muslim countries. In Lebanon, 100 percent of Muslims and 99 percent of Christians said they had a very unfavorable view of Jews, while 99 percent of Jordanians also viewed Jews very unfavorably. END OF ARTICLE It is shocking to me that they hate Jews so unanimously.
this was posted before, and as i said last time and again, skewing stats is very easy, and stats are the biggest lies.
It's a double post. See http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?p=1920332&highlight=Indonesia#post1920332
Which stats are you disputing? Are you saying support for terrorism and suicide bombing is probably on the rise in these countries?
Was at the end of another thread. I think it's worth discussing. If support for terrorism is down then that would go against the argument that US intervention in the Middle East is making things worse.
The poll was conducted by the Pew Center, which has done some great polls on the topic in the past. Since they are likely comparing results to their own past polls (same wording, etc), the results should tend to show trends well. I think there are two things of note here - one, the countries that had the big drops are the ones facing attacks of their own. So I'm not sure how much it tells us (good or bad) in terms of what the impact of the US-Iraq stuff has been. It does say that AQ is shooting themselves in the foot by targetting more countries. The second is the part you highlighted. I can't imagine you'd get 100% of people agreeing on ANYTHING, so that definitely seems really strange ... the 99% of Christians part indicates that whatever is going on there extends beyond simple Islam-Jewish relations.
I find it really odd, too. I could understand if it was maybe 99% anti-Israeli sentiment, considering that Lebanon and Israel have been at war in the past. But to have 99% unfavorable view of Jewish people in general is just puzzling. Especially since Christians make up a large ~50% of Lebanon.
I think they make up less than half of the Lebanese population now, pippendagimp, but your point is well taken. Getting 100% or 99% from a poll is damn near impossible, no matter what is being polled, and I find that conclusion very suspect. I have no doubt that Israel and Israelis (Jews, in other words... the ones most thought about in the countries polled) have an incredible PR problem, to put it mildly, but I don't believe those numbers. Keep D&D Civil!!
nope, the part about the jewish hatred. especially because many of these people probably would think israeli as soon as they hear the word "jewish". the words are almost synonymous nowadays. for all we know the statistitian asked about israelis and plugged in "jews" instead. I for one dnt think that "jews" are seen in such a bad light at all, and atleast the educated people in these countries know by virtue of whats written in the Quran that the Jews should are given a special status, and are not referred to as "infidels" but instead as "people of the book"... just my 2 cents.
IMHO much of the anti-Jewish/anti-Zionist Rhetoric stems from government control of the disimination of ideas by things like the Syrian "SANA". I have often seen a complaint that arabs are almost always depicted as terrorists in Hollywood films, and thus Americans equated Terrorists with Arab, and this distortion isn't even a concerted effort, more a convienience of storytelling chles. SANA, conversely, seems to purpously slant rhetoric against Israel for political reasons. I recently read a (not particularly good) science fiction book called Looking for the Mahdi The reason that the book intriqued me was the novel way in which it ended. In the book a fictional Arab country not rich in the oil reserves that characterize places like Saudi Arabia or Iran, (perhaps a bit like Jordan or Lebanon) comes to an agreement with Israel that whereby Israel agrees to be almost a "jewish quarter" of and submit to the will of the greater Islamic empire (somewhere between the autonomy of a State in the US and a member country of the EU) and pay religious taxes (in the earliest form as military protection of the second-tier Islamic state with whom they make the arangement.) I'm fairly sure that there is enough Islamic historical & legal prescedent to justify this type of arangement. What I wonder is how someone (like you adeelsiddiqui) could possibly even the remotest chance of this type of manouver succeding. It would definately require giving up any number of important issues on both sides (foremost in my mind would be the conversion of Jerusalem into a protectorate outside either Isreali or Arab control), but it strikes me as an elegant solution that would take much of the thunder from the most hard-line elements on both sides, given enough time. Anyway, what do people think?
By the way, in case anybody doesn't know, the King Abdullah II of Jordan was educated at Eaglebrook (where I went) and Deerfield Academy, both in Deerfield, MA. He is a perfect example of the synthesis between traditional Arab culture and the benifits of a multi-cultural education. He is IMHO the best hope for a reconsilation between Israel and the Arab world.
When I visited Amman/Petra, quite a few people (at least 10 in a 4 day trip) I met did not like King Abdullah. They liked his father very much and thought his wife was pretty, but they said that he himself is a sellout to the West. Anyways, regarding the taxation arrangement you proposed, isn't that already being done with Egypt in a practical sense? I mean the US pays Egypt (essentially on Israel's behalf) billions every year to be a friendly neighbor. Considering that Egypt is the nexus of Middle East culture, academics, and sentiment, that money is probably what has averted all out war against Israel for decades now. As Egypt moves, so do many of the other Arab countries in the region. So as far as making such payments to other countries there, yeah I think it might work out. Question is how much can Israel/US afford to pay out. Both countries are already drowning in debt.
The thing i'm worried about in this research is the part where 51% of the dutch have a negative feeling with the islam. That is terrible, i live in the most racist country in the world. Of the other 49% a part of that are Muslims. When i first heard about this research my fears were made into reality, i knew the dutch were very negative towards the islam. The dutch media and politicians are increasing this negative view. It is not good. Most dutch people do nto want to think about subject, they just want to repeat what somebody else said first. And it seems to be easier t hate others then to respect them.
I wouldn't call it the most racist country. The Dutch are pretty well known for their racial tolerance and egalitarianism. At least the Dutch have at least one Muslim member of parliament in Coruz. And Hirsi Ali used to be Muslim I don't think we have any Muslims in Congress here in the States.
If you are using this study to determine who is most racist then some Arabic countries easily beat the Dutch. And while the Dutch have negative feelings towards Muslims, their policy changes would involve solutions on how to integrate them better into society, rather than to kick them out or isolate them.
We used to be tolerant, but that is a thing of the past. Their is al ot of fear in the hearts of the dutch. And the media and politicians increase this fear. Fear seems to be a good way to keep the people voting for the current government(ofcourse bush knows about this tactic). The tolerance in holland ended with the apearance of Pim Fortyun in the politics(atleast IMHO). He is the politician who was murdered a couple of years back. IMHO he was an idiot, but he was a charismatic idiot, and alot of dutch suported him. Since he apeared dutch are not tolerant anymore. Hirsi Ali, don't even get me started on her, she changed from one of the left party's to one of the more righ orientated party so she could be higher on the election list. Altough the dutch might be known for being tolerant, that is not the case, A couple of years ago the dutch were tolerant but not anymore.(unfortunatly). For some reason the dutch do not trust the islam, and most believe it is a bad religion, and a violent religion, Most people do not want to think about it, some people say that the islam is bad, and alot of people just stop thinking and start to agree. It is sad but true.
I did not use this study to determine who is the most racist country, I used my own personal experience. Ok maybe i was exaturating when i said the dutch are one of the most racistic country's. However the dutch are very xenophobic, Atleast the last couple of years. The Our minister Verdonk(not sure what the enlish term is for her position, but she determines who can stay in holland and who should go) is a very cold woman. the dutch are not friendly anymore for refuges. Of course there are country's that are more xenophobic then the ducth, but like others said the dutch are well known for being tolerant, and i was used to that, but now that is not the case anymore. And i really do not like it
I have negative feelings towards Islam, because the majority of terror attacks nowadays are conducted in the name of Islam. I understand that not all Muslim people are behind this. However, when I see that in Pakistan or Jordan, around 50 % support Bin Laden, then hell yeah, I have negative feelings towards those people. For me, it is difficult to distinguish between the "good" muslims and those who support Bin Laden or sympathize with Al Qaeda or who hate Western civilization/any non-believers, so my first thought is that I am skeptical towards anyone sharing the same religion. When I see people on my plane who fit the profile of the attackers on 9/11, it makes me a little bit nervous, just as when I see a large group of completely veiled women on a plane. Call me ignorant or prejudiced, but I definitely do not consider myself racist because of it. I'm just being honest about it, and I am aware that it is unfair to many Muslim people who detest these attacks and these people just as much as I do. I will not treat Arabic and/or Muslim people with disrespect because of it, but the things which have happened have instilled a skepticism towards the whole group of people within me which I cannot suppress or control rationally.
Can you blame them? What profile did the people who flew planes into 9/11 fit? Same as the bombings in London, in Madrid, killing of van Gogh, etc., etc. THOSE are the intolerant ones. A society can only be tolerant for so long, at some point it needs to shield itself or it will be taken over by those who are intolerant and full of hate. So what, she is the VICTIM of intolerance here. She is a courageous woman who is fighting against those who are intolerant and hateful, even though those are threatening her with death. I am not saying islam is bad, but they currently have a much larger percentage of people who are fanatic enough to convert hate into violence against innocents. And knowing that, it is only understandable that people will not trust the whole religion, as it is almost impossible to distinguish between those who are willing to be violent and those who are against violence (see the 9/11 attackers and the London bombers, many of whom led normal lives and were under the radar and nobody would have expected them to do anything like that). I have a friend who is a Sikh and with his turban, etc., he kind of looks like Bin Laden for those who cannot really tell the difference. Is it unfair to him that he gets screened three times as much? Yeah. Would I screen him three times as much if that was my job? Hell yes. I am sorry, but it is only understandable that people are inclined to err on the side of caution.
