Suns, Warriors and Rockets all candidates for Utah's caproom (ESPN SPECULATION)

No way they give up Harpring or AK. They might take Taylor and his salary, but i doubt that too.

 

Maybe we could trade Rice so we can have enough cap space to sign Posey? Would we be able to do a trade with Utah or Miami that would relieve that much cap space, or enough that his Posey's salery wouldn't be "that" bad?

I know a couple of posters were talking about a trade of Mo Tay and Rice for Grant, which would allow us to also sign Posey.

 

Once again, Sane is grasping at straws in attempt to peddle Mo to the Utah Jazz. Yet, the article he posted specifically goes against the theory of the Jazz trading for Mo. Here are some excerpts

Note: The article emphasizes last year contracts. Nix Mo Taylor.

The article says nothing about Utah trading away one of their few talented players just to be able to meet the minimum salary. Nothing. Nice to try and pawn off Mo in a package with Rice.

 

Mo doesn't fit this criteria because he doesn't have a last year contract. Re-read your own article Sane.

How, by giving up one of their two best players for a person that will be a FA a year later?? What are they left with?? Nothing. They are not going to trade away Harpring or Kirilenko and get potentially nothing in return (and don't say Mo, because again, he does not come close to fitting the criteria they are looking for).

1) Harping can and has played some shooting guard in the past. Also, Kirilenko can and has played some some PF in the past.

2) If one has to go, don't you think they can maybe, just maybe, get something better than Mo and his contract in return??? Teams don't tend to pay two highly productive/low contract players for low production/high contract players.

How is a late 1st round or 2nd round pick incentive to take on a player like Mo?? That is hardly incentive for them to take on a player they are going to be stuck paying $7 mil to the next 5 years.

They give away their most productive player left from last year's team who is signed to a decent contract and they get some extra cap space for next year and a player who couldn't get off the bench last year yet is making starter's money for 5 more years.

Come on Sane. You are become notorious for fabricating trades that don't make sense and lumping in Mo with Rice (who per the article would be desirable) and on top of that, asking for one of Utah's few productive players in return is just silly and this would never happen.

Lets see:

Harpring - Makes a lil over $4 mil per , was a starter on a playoff team last year who averaged aprox 18 pts and 7 rebs. Has been relatively healthy the last 2-3 years.

Taylor - Makes a lil over $7 mil per, was a backup on a lottery team who averaged 8 pts and 4 rebs. One year removed from a season ending injury and has yet to fully recover.

These are facts and can not be disputed. So spin those any way you want, but these facts hold the more weight than anything else during trade negotiations (trades are about value for value 99% of the time).

 

Sane- Here's your problem.

Matt Harpring is coming off a season where he put up 17.6 and 6.6 as a 3rd option, with a 51% FG%, and a 41% 3P%. He has a reputation as being hard nosed for a wingman, who can even play some 4s.

Mo has a much larger contract to swallow, and is coming off a season where he averaged 8.4 and 3.6 on a 43% FG%.

The age difference is about a year, so that's pretty negligible. It's just simply laughable to argue that Mo's value right now is anywhere near Harpring's.If Utah is looking to spread talent around their team, they could find much better offers than Mo Taylor for Matt Harpring.

 

Both Harpling (4-yr, 18.20M 2005-06) and AK (4-yr, 4.35M 2003-04) has a very REASONABLE contract. Then Mo (6-yr, 48.75M 2006-07) has a very OVERPAID contract with LONGER term. Assume that they have equal talents, why would utah take a longer and overpaid contract and limit it's flexibility in the future?

 

Sane, I think you misunderstand what the article is proposing. Utah would be offering a trade like this: "Houston, you give us Rice and your 1st round pick in 2004 and we'll give you our 2nd round round pick in 2004." We'd pay them to take Rice.

I don't think Houston will participate because they are actually just below the luxury tax line. But a team that has let itself a little above that line may well cough up some draft picks to get under again. Gugliotta is costing Phoenix around $30 million, if the luxury tax is paid?! How can you not pay to get rid of him?

 

So now Utah is relegated to taking other team's crap, ummm, ummm, ummm, now ain't that a shame! I'd like to keep Rice because that's another shooter and he showed he could be dangerous, like when he destroyed Phoenix at their place a couple of months ago, but I say try and swing a 3-way deal and send Rice to Utah, if they'll take him. We need a SF, and if we can't get a "big time" PF, I think that Dale Davis would be an outstanding PF, an enforcer in the paint who rebounds, blocks shots, scores in the paint and would watch Yao's back. I'm not sure how much time is left on his contract, it shouldn't be more then one year. Get a Dale Davis, if Portland will deal him, get Rice off the books if it helps you get Davis and a SF, a 3-way deal would be sweet. That would take care of two birds with one stone. Hopefully something like this could happen.

 

We often overvalue a player and his contract and undervalue another trying to make a point.
Rice, MoT, Harpring, Kirilenko all have certain values. This is my read:

1) Rice is the worst among the 4, talentwise. His SF postition is not what Utah needs. Rice's contract has value but is it really worth that much? Would Utah not be better off having the actual cap space now rather than paying Rice to sit on the bench and have the cap space later? To reach the min cap, they are better off paying players that will play instead.

2) Harpring and AK are good players with good contracts. Trouble is they play the same position. Even though Harp can play SG and AK can play some PF, those are not their natual positions and they are not best utilized there. When their contracts expire, their prices will go up by a bundle too, especially AK.

3) MoT is a good player with a not so good contract ... for a bench player. Paying him to play starter's minutes is not too bad. His game is just what Utah needs too. Paying MoT to play is better to pay Rice not to play IMO.

I think some thing can be worked out to benefit both teams.

 

If I were the Jazz...I would rather get Bob Sura or Keon Clark or Wesley Person...

Glen Rice + Mo Taylor + a 1st round pick for Matt Harpring? Glen Rice and Mo Taylor for Matt Harpring doesn't seem like enough to get a guy like Harpring. Maybe add a 1st rounder? If we did this though, we would only have Eddie Griffin at the 4.

Glen Rice to Utah for a 2nd round pick is good to me...plus we get the exception right? But then we have to find someone who is willing to trade with us...

I'd rather do Taylor + Cato for Brian Grant..and get Posey back..which is perfect for us.

BUT I don't think the Rockets are planning on doing anything at all. Unless an insider says....

 

The Rockets have many question marks.
Third string 1 & 5 are fairly easy to solve with players with min contract.
The starting 3 and 4 is harder with Rice, Boki, MoT, EG but I don't think we want to overpay to get someone from outside wihout giving our guys a chance to win the job. Once we find out how they work out, we can do something. If we do decide to get outside players, for sure we have to deal one of ours away. (i.e. getting Grant and keeping MoT, EG is a no no)

 

Call me crazy, but I still don't think we have yet seen either EG or
MoT play the way they should be able to play.. we know that MoT
had finally hit a great stride at the end of season-before-last ..
everyone was very pleased and optimistic at his prospects for the
upcoming season.. blowing a gasket in the offseason was clearly
not part of the plan, and by all accounts, an injury like that takes
a lot longer to completely recover from than most people are willing
to concede. And EG is now only, what, 21, 22? People, remember
how young he still is, and how excited everyone was when we
managed to 'steal' him in the draft.. AND dont forget the benefits
of not having to get stuck with 3 guaranteed rookie contracts from
that draft..

All I mean to say is, my big fear in everyone being to eager to jettison
EG and/or MoT is the possibility that one or both of them will truly
set the world on fire here in a year or two, and we will have given
them away before they ever really had a chance to shine for us..

plus there are WAY too many unsigned free agents out there, just
waiting to be picked up, for us to lose our own talent merely for
the sake of filling roster spots.

And a new coach too?? geez, before we go dumping and retooling,
we should at LEAST give this bunch a season together..

 

I am sure they can get away with playing Harpring at the 2 to get PT for both. Despite what you insinuate, they are not in a situation where they absolutely have to or need to give up their two best assets and if they did, I am sure they can do better than Mo.

OK, two separate deals. Rice for and a draft pick for cap space makes sense. Mo for Harpring or Kirilenko makes absolutely no sense for Utah. None, zip zero.

Young and improving??? He has been on the decline, production wise, the last 3 years. How is he "improving"????

Mo is not a proven 19PPG scorer. He had two 17PPG season playing on an awful Clipper team. His production has decreased steadily since living the Clips. So just stop. The Jazz would not be trading for a 19PPG player. Coincidence???

No, but hed be a great 2nd or 3rd option on a team that can give Utah equal value in return. Mo is not equal value no matter what you say. I suspect that you know that but are too proud to admit it.

Thinking he can and the probability that he will are two different things. Sane, if you really thought that Mo could average 19PPG and that it woudl justify his contract, then you wouldn't be suggesting this silly trade because Mo would be starting for us. If the Rockets thought this, they wouldn't trade him.

Seeing as how Mo never averaged 19PPG on a lottery bound team, where he was young and got a ton of touches, the "probability" that he will do so while still recovering from an injury and getting older at the same time is a far stretch.

You don't look at the whole scope of things Sane. You pick and choose criteria to make your trades work. Last year, Harping scored more points and grabbed more rebounds at the 3 than Mo did in his best year so far at the 4.

I beg you to find a trade where a player like Harpring (low contract/highly productive season) was traded straight up for a player like Mo (high contract/low production season).

This has never happened and will never happen.

Of course I don't. You think he was over his injury. THats why he averaged 8 pts, 4 rebs and couldn't beat out one of the worst starting PFs in the league for the starting job.

Makes perfect sense Sane

Please don't put words in my mouth Sane.

I think that if the Jazz are going to trade away from a surplus position, that they will want something of equal value in return. Mo for Harping or Kirilenko is NOT equal value. Not even close.

Unfortunately, Mo's production is not relative to his size nor has it ever been.

Oh, and as usual Sane, you leave out the whole contract issue, which is far from EQUAL and makes a huge difference.

I am secure with my opinion as I see nothing indicating Utah desires a player like Mo Taylor. Nothing. This trade will not happen just like all the other trades you propose.

Why do I need to change my stance when I know I am right? When I know that the reasons why Utah would not make this trade are consistent with why trades are and are not made in the NBA???

Overwhelming?? Nice one Sane. Its an overwhelming situation that has Utah trading one of their two best players for Mo Taylor. You are right. I am overwhelmed with all of the evidence you have presented, even though all of it is silly (even goes against the article you posted to open this thead).

The problem is Sane, you mistook your own article for something that it wasn't. You are fabricating reasons (untruths) which do not make sense, while I am responding with common sense. Please stop overwhelming me.

Again, all indications from articles I have seen, are the Heat, because they have so much cap space already, are standing pat with Grant and Jones for one last playoff run and are looking to add and not subtract. In addition, there is a specific media article coming out of Miami that stated that Heat did not want to take on any long term salary committments in additino to what they already have. So please don't waste your time coming up with another Miami-Houston trade that involves Mo Taylor.

 

I still cannot see what the big deal is. Every team in the league has and will overpay a player. MoT is a starter in this league and I just cannot believe that it would be crazy for UTAH to consider him starter on their team. Obviously they have a number of options but it is not of the question that Utah approaches us for MoT. I do not expect them to give up Harping but they could get him for picks if the Rocket really wanted to move him which I do not think they do. Yes it would be salary dumping on our part even but that does not mean it cannot work for a player of value with some years left on his contract.

 

You overvalue Harpring and Grant. Each maybe better than 1 of our players but surely not two!?
I like Grant a lot since his day with Portland but he is not worth that much. He is a PF with limited offense and undersized for a 5.
I like Harpring too but let's see how he performs without Stockton and Malone!