It is 8/21/2006. Sunday School Teacher Let Go For Being Female Woman Taught Sunday School For 54 Years POSTED: 7:45 am CDT August 21, 2006 http://www.click2houston.com/family/9708083/detail.html WATERTOWN, N.Y. -- The pastor of a church that has stopped letting women teach Sunday school said that won't affect his decisions as a city councilman in upstate New York. Rev. Timothy LaBouf dismissed a female Sunday School teacher this month, saying a woman can perform any job -- outside the church. The First Baptist Church in Watertown dismissed Mary Lambert Aug. 9 after adopting what it called a literal interpretation of the Bible. The reverend recently dismissed Lambert, who had taught Sunday school for 54 years, citing the biblical advice of the apostle Paul: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." Lambert has publicly criticized the decision. The church board said other issues were behind Lambert's dismissal, but it did not say what they were. LaBouf, who also serves on the Watertown City Council, issued a statement saying his stance against women teaching men in Sunday school would not affect his decisions as a city leader in Watertown, where all five members of the council are men but the city manager who runs the city's day-to-day operations is a woman. "I believe that a woman can perform any job and fulfill any responsibility that she desires to" outside the church, LaBouf wrote Saturday. Mayor Jeffrey Graham, however, was bothered by the reasons given Lambert's dismissal. "If what's said in that letter reflects the councilman's views, those are disturbing remarks in this day and age," Graham said. "Maybe they wouldn't have been disturbing 500 years ago, but they are now."
Good topic, I think it echos a post by thumbs in the Arab woman thread. Discriminations against women in this country and in Western society at large, although not as blatant and violent as in Muslim world, are still very much alive and prevalent. I think one can trace its root to the Bible. Since a woman was originally made from a rib taken from a man, what's the big deal if a rib gets broken, the man would be just fine and can move on with his life, no?
The NT sees Paul write to churches led by women. Jesus (gasp) talks to women. Paul says God shows no favoritism in his love for people.
The church I go to wouldn't let a woman teach a Sunday school class either, unless all the students were female or children. This is partly because of Paul's admonishment and partly because they try as much as possible to have all classes taught by ordained ministers, deacons or elders -- and you have to be a man to be ordained. People have a tendency to hear the explanation that it is in accordance with Biblical teachings, and then chuck all that and assume that it is because the leaders think women are worth less or inferior. But, I don't think that is true of the leadership. My church tries to find as much leadership opportunity as they can for women, while still obeying rules about women in church authority. They don't think women are less qualified, certainly. But, it is easy to be a cynic about such things. And, I'm sure there are enough examples out there where chauvinists hide behind the Bible. In any case, it's easy to cast doubt on this man's feelings about women in government leadership because of his policy within the church, but I would tend to give him the benefit of the doubt until there is some other evidence.
Wait a minute, before I post anything somebody explain to me why there are no women NFL head coaches, NBA head coaches or MLB managers? Is this a Biblical matter? Can women teach sports?
That's a completely different issue. Women aren't prohibited by NFL rules from coaching. In this case, the head of the church argued that church doctrine itself prohibited women from being sunday school teachers.
But why is teaching Sunday school equivalent to coaching sports team? Is there any requirement involving physical activities other than brain functions when one teachs the Bible? A more analogous example IMO would be comparing it to teaching math, sciences, philosophy, or any other thought provoking curricula or subjects in "regular" schools/universities, where women are just as qualified and competent as men.
Overall, deep down where it counts, society as a whole does not really except the fact that men and women are equal. While there are some women ministers, they are few in number. So women by and large are not equal in the church, synagoge or mosque. A woman can be president of the United States, but one has never been elected. So the voters of the country have more faith in a man as their leader then a woman. Fact and figures still show women earn less then men and don't climb the ladder as fast or as often as men in corporate America. This may be more of a choice because many women put family first. Most likely the best mens sports teams can beat the best womens sports teams. More to do with genetics then anything else. I think what galls me about the equality debate in religion is it makes it seem like women are farther from God or can't comprehend and teach faith as well as a man. Seems like garbage to me.
I don't know this quote, so I may be taking it out of context but if Paul really says, [rquoter] I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. [/rquoter] As opposed to "god forbids" or "you should not" is that really a command of the Bible, or just Paul's personal preferences.
It is about time they got rid of her. I don't know how she got away with being female and still being on the job for all that time.
Couldn't you say any religion that includes the Adam & Eve foundation is inherently chavinist to some degree due to the whole woman being created from man (and thus wo-man) thing? Jesus, however, did cure a woman of "the issue of blood" so that she would not be so disgusting.
- OK Besides Goldie, why women aren't considered to coach men's professional teams isn't even an issue. So for the thousands of women teaching in thousands of churches across America, one church does not an isssue make. The Biblical roles for men and women are so distorted today that any explanation of what Paul was saying would be tainted by current prejudice and culture. Things like deference, meekness, humility, modesty and virtue are lost on today's culture. Making this issue one debate worth staying out of.
why????? God created man...God created woman. I can't imagine twisting that to develop some sense of superiority.
I know you wouldn't but you do realize men have been doing it for thousands of years right? God created man first. Then he created woman from a small part of man. She was created second, not equal. As I said, for thousands of years women were seen as especially disgusting because of menstruation. One miracle of christ dealt with this stigma and it was seen as a boost for a woman's status such that the loose early churrch (or churches) often had women leaders. Then men got territorial and ended that.
Actually when it comes to using the word 'equal' a defining frame of reference should be used. For instance equal in power? Who has the most power those with influence or those with position? The president of the US has a position but does he have the most power? I would argue that the person with the most influence on decisions has the most power. So when we look at roles and positions we aren't really dealing with power. Who controls has the power. Influence is more important that position.
