http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A15509-2003Aug19?language=printer The Associated Press Tuesday, August 19, 2003; 3:31 PM JERUSALEM - A suicide bomber blew himself up Tuesday on a packed bus on a main thoroughfare in Jerusalem, killing at least 20 people and wounding 80, Israel Army Radio said. Nobody immediately claimed responsibility. The blast on the extra long bus, which had two passenger sections that were full, went off shortly after 9 p.m. Another bus nearby also was hit by the explosion. The bus had started out at the Western Wall, Judaism's holiest shrine, in the walled Old City, and was headed to an ultra-Orthodox Jewish neighborhood, radio reports said, making it likely that many of the passengers were ultra-Orthodox. The bus was badly damaged, with its windows blown out, and rescuers had to use blow torches to pry wounded from the wreckage. "What is clear is that it was a very big bomb," Jerusalem fire chief Amnon Amir said. Shocked survivors, including several crying children with blood-smeared faces, were led away from the scene. A paramedic cradled a little girl in his arms, and two others led away an older woman. Paramedics treated wounded on the sidewalk, and body parts were strewn about. A rescue service said at least 20 people, including three children, were killed. Israeli officials don't include the bomber in the death toll. The bombing threatened to restart the cycle of attacks and retaliation that could derail a U.S.-backed "road map" peace plan to Palestinian statehood. Over the weekend, Israel and the Palestinians had reached agreement on the handover of four West Bank towns to Palestinian control. That deal was likely to be put on hold. The Palestinian Authority had no immediate comment. The explosion went off as Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas was meeting with Islamic militants in the Gaza Strip to persuade them to halt attacks on Israelis. The militants had declared a unilateral truce on June 29 but have said they would continue taking revenge for Israeli killings of their operatives. Hamas said it was not involved. "We are commited to the truce. I don't know who carried out this action," said Abdel Aziz Rantisi, a Hamas leader. ---- AP Writer Neil Bar-Or contributed to this report.
I know what you're saying, but it is the realization of just that sentiment that has helped entrench the situation to date.
Times like this I want to say to Israel: if you want to fight forever to annex territory, but not the people because you want ethnic/relgious purity, you are on your own nickel. If you are still having problems once you give back the terriory to the people living on it, and you still have security problems, give us and the UN a call. Till then you are on your own.
In your opinion. Several Arab countries are at war with Israel, but Israel tries to act like that's not the case with these "peace" plans.
Isn't this essentially what we said in 1967, when we gave Israel a small piece of land. And what happeend? Arab countries attacked, Israel defended itself and was left with occupied land as a buffer. What on earth makes you think that exact scenario won't happen again? There's no way in hell Israel can give up that land unless it wants to committ suicide.
I know. In college I had an Egyptian classmate. I would talk with her about the Mideast, and in spite of my best pleas for peace, she told me that there would never be peace as long as Israel existed. She said this fight would never be over. danged if she hasn't been right thus far.
Mr. C. I think that the problem, from my point of view, comes with the dismissive nature of your very first statement. We 'gave' land that didn't belong to us, but was in fact the dwelling of a people who had lived there for over 2, 000 years, who had not lost a war, had not signed a treaty, and had nothing to do with the Holocaust, the emotional motivation for the formation of Israel. And yes, they were Arabs. Your depiction totally dismisses their complaint, and makes the subsequent Arab attacks appear to be irrational acts rather than rational attemots to , as they saw it, redress a wrong done to their neighbours for the benefit of strangers.
She's not right. If these militant Arabs ever get rid of Israel, they'll just go back to oppressing and killing each other.
In this and another thread, you seem to make a lot of racial or cultural based generalized conclusions. This is offensive, MC. There is no historical basis for this conclusion. In fact, in the past several hundred years, the region in question has been responsible for much fewer violent deaths and casualties than we have, Europe has, etc. They have done nothing which compares with either WWI or WWII alone, let alone accumulated oppression and killing. The US alone has been involved in the violent deaths of more people in the past 200 years than the entire Middle East combined. Where do you get this stuff? Just because they don't like us doesn't mean they're savage.
While I agree there was injustice done against the Arabs, I don't think that just because Israel was given a tiny piece of land (where some Jews were actually living) should have erupted into the whole Middle East being at war against Israel. It is completely irrational for Palestinians to focus so much hatred on Israel when they are treated worse by the Arab countries that surround them. Also, why not seek some redress from Europe? After all, weren't the Jews trying to form their own state so they could avoid the persecution they had faced for so many years? Why doesn't Europe provide financial compensation for families displaced? They agreed with the plan. They caused the problem from which Jews had to flee. Now Europe does nothing but smugly look down upon the Jews and calls them "Nazis." I can't believe it. I just want to make clear that I agree the Palestinians have reason to be angry, but continual terrorists attacks are going to make things worse for them. Israel has shown the past 2 decades a willingness to give up land, but they just refuse to agree to clamp down on Hamas and the other organizations.
Macbeth, I am simply basing it on reality. The people are not free, the governments oppress democratic movements, and the people have not gone through the Enlightenment yet. Terrorism is a major movement there. Women are 2nd class citizens. I am not trying to be offensive, there are other Muslim countries that do not have these problems. I don't even have to go back into history, just look at the present, and think what would happen if Israel was wiped off the map. Would freedom and prosperity sweep through the Middle East? Of course not.
1) it is customary for peoples to suspend local antagonism when threatened by an outsider. 2) They did seek redress, did seek a voice, intially sought diplomatic resolution, but were told, by the UN lead by US motions at the time, that the Palestinians were not a recognized state, and as such had no real complaint that could be dealt with. 3) Why are you saying Europe alone? Yes Europe was largely responsible, but the primary movement for Israel's formation came from US interests. 4) I agree that there is shared resonsibility, and that both sides can be viewed as struggling for their existence, but to treat the situation as Israel has constantly been trying to find peace only to bsee every effort exploited is a misrepreentation fo history.
1. No doubt, this is understandable. 2. I am sure they did, unfortunately it did not work out. There really isn't much more I can say, other than they could have the prosperity they want if they let go of their idea to destroy Israel. 3. Well, Europe committed most of the crimes against the Jews and seems to have washed their hands of the situation at this point. I think the US has been trying to do something, since Jimmy Carter's presidency it seems everyone has had some sort of peace meeting with both sides of the situation. 4. It's true, Israel has not done everything right. My only point is that in recent history at least, Israel has been at the negotiating table and I don't think the Palestinians have been. In the case of Arafat, I don't think he was sincere. In the case of Abbas, I don't think he has the power. He will be killed by Hamas if he tries to clamp down on the terror. He may be killed for negotiating too much. I think he truly does want peace, however. I don't think there is a military solution. But Israel needs to defend itself to deter these attacks. I think a strong response will signal to the other side that attacks are not tolerated, and it will show the Israeli people that the government is at least doing something, and security won't be compromised for a deal at the table.
Too much mistrust and hatred. A Palestinian state will always be a thorn to Israel, and a Jewish State will always be a poke in the Palestinian eyes. After a couple of thousand of years they are still fighting to see who the holy land belongs to. Blame religion and the breakdown of humanity.
MacBeth, First, who were the "we" that "gave" land to Israel? Second, my understanding is that before the formation of the Israeli state, there were already many Jewish settlements in the area. The establishment of Jewish self-governing zones were created to reduce contact between the two ethnic groups, hoping to limit conflict which were already quite serious. But once the zones were established, the Arabs vowed to destroy them because they saw it as already granting statehood to the Jews. So it's not like we went in and told the Palestinians to move over for the new state of Israel. Also, The current occupied territories are the results of wars started by the Arabs. BTW, I'm not totally sympathizing with Israel. Just want to clarify the claim you made. You sounded like blaming "us" for the Israeli-Palestinian problem.
