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Strategy Question from Astros-Braves game

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by bobrek, Oct 10, 2005.

  1. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Being as I am stuck in Korea for a couple more days, I was unable to watch the game live (last year when I was stuck here for the NLCS, I was able to watch the games).

    When Chavez was playing first, did the Braves even try to lay down a bunt or two? With Clemens and his testy hamstring pitching and Chavez at first, I would think a managerial genius like Cox would have been bunting down the first base line like crazy.
     
  2. meh

    meh Member

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    Cox and Garner obviously thought Chavez was competent enough. So that the odds of getting a hit via the bunt was not higher than just swinging away. While he did look a bit awkward at 1st(especially catching the throw by Viz that was ruled an error), it was hardly bad enough for bunts to be a high % play.
     
  3. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    I think Garner's move wasn't due to the fact he though Chavez was competent or not, but that he didn't have any other choice. Considering Chavez has not played first base this year (if ever), it would seem to be worth a shot or two.

    Years ago the Astros and Dodgers played a truly phenomenal game which went many innings and hours. Lasorda was forced to play Fernando Valenzuela at first base. Not once did the Astros drop a bunt his way.
     
  4. tierre_brown

    tierre_brown Member

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    If I may ask, why are you in Korea bobrek?
     
  5. meh

    meh Member

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    Actually, he did have another choice. He could've put Chavez in the OF and someone else on 1st.

    The bottom line is, Chavez just has to be competent enough at 1st to not have the Braves bunt or slap some grounders to 3rd all day long. And he's certainly good enough to do that, after looking at this game.
     
  6. today

    today Member

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    Garner said in the press conference that they originally signed Chavez as a shortstop (wow!!!), and that he was confident in Chavez' ability to play first. Of course his statement was after the fact, so you still could be right, Garner could have had no other choice.
     
  7. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    I am doing computer work at one of our customer sites. This is my 4th trip to Seoul in the last 12 months.
     
  8. BigM

    BigM Member

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    like garner said, these guys(referring to ausmus and chavez) take fielding practice everyday so he was confident enough in their abilities out there. a regular first baseman picks that viz throw failry easily, imo, but i think chavez at the minimum wouldn't have a problem with a bunt.
     
  9. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    I suspect that Chavez in the outfield would be more of a worry than Chavez at first, so first base probably was his only realistic option.

    In that type of game, I would think you would want to put Clemens and Chavez in motion and see if they can handle it. A 43 year old pitcher on 2 days rest with a questionable hamstring and a major league novice first baseman? I'd dare them to get me out (at least once).
     
  10. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Member

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    First base isn't exactly a "tough" base to play, because even left handers don't yank the ball down the line like righties do to the third base line. Chavez is a major league catcher who has great hand eye coordination and that is all it takes to play first base. The dropped ball on the Viz throw wasn't Chavez's fault... Viz rushed it when he didn't have to when he knew a catcher was over there, Everett makes that a chest high throw any day of the week.

    As far as bunting, at that point in the game you know that it is going to take a big hit to end the game... a double and then a bunt, a triple then a sac fly or a long ball. Other then Furcal they had no one that was "super-fast" (even Andruw has lost a step) and you have to remember the fact that they had played for over 5 hours... which would certainly effect their speed. Cox made the right move in hoping for an extra base hit and the Astros just happened to get one sooner.
     
  11. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    I would say, in hindsight, he obviously didn't make the right move in waiting for that extra base hit.
     
  12. thewaterox

    thewaterox Member

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    I can't believe Cox didn't try a squeeze play in the top of the 14th with A. Jones on third with one out and McCann up to bat. Maybe McCann is not a good bunter, but I was expecting a squeeze play that never came and McCann went on to strike out.
     
  13. Svpernaut

    Svpernaut Member

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    Sqeeze play is usually a very bad call when there is a force at home (home to first DP)... McCann had just hit a long ball, he should be able to hit a sac-fly with no problem.
     
  14. thewaterox

    thewaterox Member

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    Good point the bases were loaded at the time.
     
  15. Fegwu

    Fegwu Member

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    I have another question:

    After Clemens' Sac Bunt to get Bidge to second in the 15th, had Ensberg come up with the go ahead RBI in that same inning, who would have gotten the victory?

    I am guessing last pictcher of record, Wheeler, but I do not want to assume too quickly.
     
  16. Toast

    Toast Member

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    Yeah, it woulda been Wheeler.

    But about Chavez at first. I think the Astros were more concerned with runners on first getting too big of a jump and not respecting Chavez to hold the runner. When the Braves DID get someone on base, Roger seemed very preoccupied with keeping the runner at bay and tossing over to first.

    Seemed his first couple of throws were a little tentative, just to test Chavez. But then they got into a rhythm.
     
  17. Austin70

    Austin70 Member

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    Major props to Chavez and Ausmus for doing the job they did under that much preasure.
     
  18. leroy

    leroy Member
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    Chavez was actually a decent 3rd baseman coming up in the minors. He got caught behind some guys and was made into a full time catcher. I believe he played 3rd as recent as 2 seasons ago while in AAA @ New Orleans. It was a gutsy move on Garner's part and worked to perfection.
     

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