OK, I'll bring up this fact that I just posted. With Franchise last year we were 26-29 and without him we were 2-25. Do you think Nash would have that kind of impact on our team? I'll gaurantee you that if we had Nash on our team we would have a worse record than if we had the Franchise. As for Nash versus Mobley, that's a hard comparison. Nash is a PG and Mobley is a SG. Obviously Mobley doesn't have the skills to be a PG and Nash doesn't have the skills to be a SG, but overall Nash has the All Star bid so he gets the nod. Now, what would be cool is if we had Nash and Stevie. Whoah!
All I can say is that there is not ONE point guard in the NBA I would even consider trading Steve for. The combination of youth, ability, and unfilled potential makes the Steve the most valuable point guard in the league. I bet every GM in the entire NBA knows this to be true. I wouldn't trade him for Payton, Nash, Miller, Kidd, Davis, etc. There are players in the league that I would consider trading Steve for, but none of them are point guards. I guess the "lets trade Steve for Miller" posts or "I wish we had Davis instead of Steve" posts are just really getting on my nerves.
At this point, the only PG I'd consider trading Steve for is Baron Davis. That's ONLY, under ONE condition. If Steve's migraines are not curable. There are better PG's like Payton and Kidd. But one has to take age into consideration. There is also another argument to be made here. If FRANCIS was on the MAVS, would they become better or worse? Good question.....eyy?
You guys are joking right? Nash is a far superiour player to Francis right now...FAR superiour, he understands how to get others involved, how and when to take the shot, and can run the fast break as good as anyone in the league. Francis is a better ATHLETE, but he is NOT a better player. Nash > Francis DaDakota
YOU must be joking...Nash is a product of his environment...put Stevie on that team and they are as good or better. Tghere isnt a GM/owner in the league that would take Nash over Francis right now...in fact, given his choice, Cuban would take Francis in a heartbeat.
LOL, there's nothing you can say to DaDakota. He carries Nash's jockstrap around with him or something. The only reason this is even questionable is because Steve was hurt then he had the migraine issues. There is no way on God's green earth that Nash is a better all round basketball player than the Franchise. The only thing that Nash does significantly better is shoot (and that was only last year when Steve sucked it up in the 2nd half....when Steve gets back to his 00-01 shooting #'s then they're about even maybe a slight edge to Nash). Nash gets more assists, but look who he has on his team. We have Kenny T - Nash has Dierk, we have Cato - Nash has anyone, we have Rice/Tmo/Wizard - Nash has that Finley guy, we have Mooch - Nash has NVE. Look at the guys he has to pass to and look who Steve has. Steve has had so many games in his young career already where he has made great passes to wide open players who couldn't nail the shot if they're life depended on it. Its a miracle he gets over 6 apg on our sorry team. Who is the better rebounder? Who is the better scorer? Who makes the team significantly better (once again, look at our record with Steve and without him)? They're both subpar at defense so that's a wash. There's no way on earth that Nash is better than Steve and I'll bet than 90% of people wouldn't trade Steve for Nash (and the 10% that would are Grizz fans or people that only see the injuries he had last year).
Francis is NOT a better basketball player......Nash is.... Francis IS a better athlete, and has a higher upside. Anyone that can not see that Nash makes the Mavericks go, is not watching these playoff games. He is incredible, he plays smart and up tempo basketball. Francis is a GREAT one on one player, but there are 5 players on the court and the PG should be distributing the basketball to them in a position in which they can succeed. Nash does this, Francis does not. I think Francis has HUGE potential, and has a higher ceiling, however who is to say he will ever reach that ceiling. Even Rudy is worried that Steve has what it takes to reach that next level...read Oielpere's post about that. The problem is that athleticism deteriorates faster then smarts.....look at Stockton, still effective at 40. Francis needs to mature in a hurry, or the Rockets will flounder for many more years. DaDakota
There are 2 questions here: Which is better? and with whom would Dallas excel more? Nash is a great player who can score and dish, but just is not as good a player as Francis, imo. However, he fits in the Dallas team much better than Francis would. With the way that team is built, many of Francis' strengths would be under-utilized because it was built for Nash's strengths, not Francis'. What if Nash came to take Francis' spot in Houston? Could we win even as many games as we did last season? I doubt it.
Okay, I don't agree with this, but that is perfectly fine for you to believe that Nash is a better player than Francis right now. Its when people start to say they should TRADE Francis for Nash that gets me riled up. If you would make that trade, then I will not only disagree with you, I will have to start being nasty.
Nash makes the Mavs go???? Calm down a minute...the Mavs could have Rafer Alston passing the ball and they would be as good. There isn't an NBA exec in the league that would rather have Nash over Steve. I agree with JV that Nash fits Dallas better than Steve would (even though I still think they would be as good recordwise with Steve) but Im shocked that anyone would think that Nash is a better player than Steve
Living in Dallas I've watched Nash mature as a leader and playmaker over the last few years. He has guts, is relentless, pushes the ball at every chance, and knows how to close out a game. He also knows when to take over a game and when to involve his teammates. In 1998 I thought Don Nelson was an idiot for bringing him here....well the joke is on me. This guy is the engine that makes the Mavs go. DaDakota is right: right now Nash is the more effective player, leader and playmaker. One of the reasons that his supportive cast is better is that HE MAKES THEM BETTER! He is a great on court decision maker and, despite the Mav's uptempo game that leads the league in points, they lead the league in fewest TO's/game. I'm not saying Francis doesn't have a superior upside, and is not the superior athlete, and that he won't be the better player ultimately, but right now, all things considered: Nash > Francis Dallas Rocket
Dallas Rocket, Spot on !!! Now, all this being said, I would not trade Francis for Nash, both Dallas and Houston would be worse off with this trade. Now Cat would be gone in the blink of an eye for Nash... Nash & Francis > Francis & Mobley DaDakota
You guys are crazy...there is ZERO comparison between Nash and Steve when speaking from a pure basketball perspective. Steve is head and shoulders above Nash in every aspect of the game except assists. Nash averaged like 1 assist more than Steve did this year and look at the differences in shooters/scorers they had. Give me a friggin break
Let me give you a hypothetical situation... You are the GM of an expansion team and the 2 best guards who are left unprotected in the expansion draft are Francis and Nash. You have decided that you are taking a guard 1st so in a sense, you are building your team around one of these 2 guys. Who do you take?
I think Steve is actually as good or better a passer than Nash. What Nash does do better than Steve is shoot. It's his improved shooting, really, that has opened up the rest of the game. But Steve is a better or equal (defense) player in every other regard. The funny part about the argument, though, is that Nash and Francis play very similar games. But what DaDakota sees as immaturity, less talent in Francis, he sees as a great point guard in Nash. Nash played an amazing second half last night, but in the first half committed some really dumb turnovers, often dribled the ball too long, etc. Here are some quotes from the other thread bumped back up from Dadakota "Steve Nash is so darned smart on the basketball court that he does EXACTLY what a good point guard should do, he makes his teamates better. " How smart is it to fail to protect the ball on consecutive plays in the first half. "Nash runs the ball up the court, makes good solid decisions, and HUSTLES on defense. " Nash is not good on defense. In the 5 total playoff games thus far he has 0 steals. He averaged 0.65 for the season. Stats aren't everything, but these sure don't indicate any hustling. "Our guards are too much about ESPN highlight shows and not about winning." And Nash isn't. So those 3 point rainbows (that he makes) when running down for a fastbreak is smart, or those behind the back passes. Do they work for Nash? Well, yes, he's passing to Finley, or LaFrentz or Nowitski. Francis' alley-oops to Cato were also quite successful. Anyway, I know these are just some quotes, and were from a while back, but their games are very very similar. Nash is an excellent PG for the smae reasons Francis is. They are both constantly surveying the court. They can both create for htemselves and others. They're both athletic, extremely good offensive players. Steve is more athletic, though, severly outrebounds Nash and has more potential, imo, to get even better. Undoubtedly, though, Nash has a better supporting cast right now, and plays a game perfectly suited to his playing style - hence those stupid turnovers in the first half can be overlooked by the end of the game when you jack up 90 shots anyway.
I'll agree that that Nash making his team better is about .0001% of the reason that his supporting cast is better, but that's all I'll agree too. Do you really believe that Nash could improve guys like Cato, Torres, Collier, Langhi, Morris, and Griffin? I don't think Magic Johnson in his prime could do anything to improve those players this season, much less Steve Nash. The other 99.9999% of the reason that Nash has a better supporting cast than Francis is because the Mavericks supporting cast is ten times more talented.
Nash makes Dallas go? I don't think so. If anyone makes that team go, it is Nowitzki. Nowitzki makes Nash better. Nash also looks like a better player than he is due to Dallas' "loose and wreckless" style of play. All Dallas needs at the point is a guy who has guts, can score, and can take it to the hole. Nash's style of play wouldn't have won squat in Houston because there is no Nowitzki or Finley available to make a busted play or stupid pass look good. If the Rockets had the personnel to hit all those open 22 foot shots they bricked all year, the Rockets would still be playing now. Give Francis Nowitzki and Finley and see how much better the Rockets get. The Rockets had a miserable season. Get over it guys. With the injuries, the team just wasn't that talented. Period. It doesn't have to be any single player's fault. The team wasn't that talented (as TheFreak has been pointing out all season). The team flat out sucked. Of course the injuries didn't help and Francis's plantar fascia and headaches/vertigo didn't help the winning cause any either. However, don't deny the overwhelmingly positive affect Francis' play had on the team when he was healthy. That says a lot about how, regardless of his faults, Francis makes this team better. Its OK to criticize the kid, because he isn't perfect. And its OK to just flat out not like the kid. However, stop going so far overboard with these wild, out-of-context psuedo-analyses. Geez!
No kidding! I love watching Steve Nash play, but I think he is even more deserving of the nickname "Little Dribbler" than Moochie Norris. He'll dribble from the top of the 3-point line to the wing, then along the baseline to the other wing, and finally back to the middle of the court. The only difference is that Nash has four other guys on the court who can shoot the ball and bail him out at times.
