Given Baron Davis' recent selection for the Goodwill Games, and the assertion of various pundits that he was the crown jewel of the draft class of 99, how about a thread for the Davis vs Francis debate? Davis - significant numbers 13.8 ppg 7.3 assists 5 rpg 42.7% fg 31% 3pt 67.7 ft 38.9 mpg 2.1 steals 2.8 to team: 46-36 conference semi-finals Stevie Francis 19.9ppg 6.5 apg 6.9rpg 45.1 fg 39.6 3pt 81.7 ft 39.9 mpg 1.8 steals 3.3 to team: 45-37 no playoffs So, what do we get from the stats? Davis' had more assists and fewer turnovers in about the same number of minutes Then again, he also had better shooters to pass to (Mash, Wesley) who did fewer one-on-one plays than Houston (Mobley, Taylor). Overall, I'd give Davis the nod for pure distributing abilities, mainly because of the fewer turnovers. But as for personal numbers, Davis' was faced less defensive pressure, played in the Leastern Conference, and still managed to rack up fewer points, had a worse %, a crappy long-range shot, and an inability to hit free throws like a PG should. He didn't rebound as well, either, and a smaller % of his rebounds were offensive. Francis' team had one less win, in a more difficult conference, with less talent around him, and was the featured player on the team. As for personal observation: Baron seems to be an efficient distributor, and has the ability to drive to the hoop. He really stood out in the playoffs, but I think that the zone will hurt him more than Francis, as he seems to rely more on raw athleticism in getting to the hoop, whereas Francis has better stop-and-pop abilities. If Baron develops a better jumper though... watch out. This could just be homer bias, but Stevie also seems to have better creative abilities than Davis. Whereas Davis is prefectly capable of driving and dishing, he doesn't seem to have Francis' ability to make "something out of nothing." While has a number of highlight reel dunks, at times he looks a bit lost. I would say that right now, though, Davis seems to have better court vision. At times, it seems like Francis can get "locked in" on the basket, much like Hakeem used to, and he'll end up with a stupid turnover. OTOH, this possibly indicates Francis' superstar potential: he's one of those players that won't be denied. Want to single-handedly lead his team to victory. Baron's younger, and may surpass Francis... but with his lack of shooting skills, I'm not sure. Overall, I'd have to say the hype about Baron Davis being the best player of the 99 draft is, at best, premature, and at worst, unwarranted. While I'd say that Brand, Odom, and Francis have all had better careers to this point, I think we can safely say that Francis is a better player, and has the wins to back it up as well (which is the knock against Brand and Odom). ------------------ Lacking inspiration at the moment... [This message has been edited by haven (edited June 20, 2001).]
Baron Davis was considered the best player from the 99 draft? I've never heard anyone say that. The thing I don't like about Baron is his shot, the rest of his game is solid, and you covered the parts that talk about how the game is easier for him than Brand, Odom, and Francis. His mechanics are bad, and I don't know if he's ever going to significantly improve his shot. I would also say both of them are average passers at this point in their careers, with Baron's higher assist total being the result of Charlotte's offensive system and shooters. He's really the 3rd option on that team, which takes all the pressure off of him. I really like Silas' offensive set. It's simple, well spaced, and allows players a clear lane to drive to the basket is a play breaks down. ------------------ [This message has been edited by tacoma park legend (edited June 20, 2001).]
TPL: That's what provoked the post. I read something to that effect twice during Charlotte's playoff run, and just read it today on thesportingnews.com's draft section. I really hate it when prognosticators "bandwagon" when a players's doing well. Davis had a couple good playoff games... and now he's the best player from that draft. Grrr... ------------------ Lacking inspiration at the moment...
Baron Davis will never be the scoring threat that any of the other big 3 rookies from that draft were either, so does that eliminate his superstar potential since he doesn't have great passing skills? ------------------
http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/mike_decourcy/20010615.html Is this the article you were talking about Haven? It's funny how he says his proclamation that Davis was the jewel of that draft is now validated. Right now, I'd still take Odom, Francis, and Brand over Davis and maybe even Marion. ------------------
TPL: yeah, he comes off as pretty self-righteous, doesn't he ? I'd take Marion first, too. ------------------ Lacking inspiration at the moment...
The difference between 20-7 and 14-5 is huge. Not to mention Steve shoots better in ALL 3 shooting categories. Realisticly, Davis is not in Francis' league. White chocolate is a better comparison. ------------------ "Chucky who? I thought we were talking about basketball?" Charles Barkley
Don't even compare Davis to Francis.Francis showed who's the man when they played each other. ------------------ Never underestimate the heart of a Champion
I hope they mean validation of Davis being the #4 pick. Heck, throw Andre Miller in the mix, his #'s were comparable to Davis's. No knock on Baron, but I think Francis, brand, Odom, Marion, and maybe Miller are ahead of him thus far. ------------------ "norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you." [This message has been edited by gr8-1 (edited June 20, 2001).]
gr8-1: No, he meant best player: In making the 1998 declaration of the draft's best player, the only time consideration in anointing Vince Carter was finding a week when little else required attention. It was no more draining to select Baron Davis in 1999 or Kenyon Martin in 2000. ------------------ Lacking inspiration at the moment...
Steve averaged 7boards a game last year? Damn. If he was 6'5 he would be in the top 5 in boards. ------------------ President of the Steve Francis, Jamal Crawford,Larry Hughes, and Charles Woodson fan club.
The columnist's e-mail is at the bottom of the article so if you guys are truly disgusted with such a short sighted closed minded evaluation, you can send a few angry e-mails. There is no way that after two short seasons and one playoff run by Davis that you can annoint the best player in that draft. If the Rockets were in the Eastern Conference, they would have destroyed Charlotte. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
Mmanal: Nah, posting my disgusted comparison on cc.net was enough catharsis for me . ------------------ Lacking inspiration at the moment...
Hmm...Does anyone have the numbers on their head to head? Davis is probably a better distributor, but Franchise outshoots (BD shoots 67 from the line? pathetic for a pg), scores, rebounds, and in my opinion demands more defensive attention. All of this and Stevie plays in the West... No contest, the way I see it. ------------------
The Rockets would have destroyed everyone in the East. Their best test would have been Milwaukee. ------------------ President of the Steve Francis, Jamal Crawford,Larry Hughes, and Charles Woodson fan club.
Milwaukee? Am I wrong, or did the Rockets hand them their first and second biggest losses of the season this year? Milwaukee doen't know how to deal with the smallball Rockets. Of all the teams in the east, I would have loved to be matched up with the Bucks. ------------------ "They couldn't shoot, rebound, or pass, but other than that, they played great!" -Bill Walton
You are correct, Sir. Major whuppin' time v. the Bucks. And payback for Sam's showing Steve up his first NBA game. Payback is a b!tch. ------------------ Some days you eat the bear. Some days the bear eats you.
I completely forgot to address the Baron Davis issue. His first year was not significant, so his improvement the second year made folks notice him. Add to that his good play in the playoffs for two rounds, and the Eastern media bias, and it adds up to way too much ink for Baron Davis. Steve is better in so many ways. It's like Payton v. T. Hardaway, which is to say, no contest. ------------------ Some days you eat the bear. Some days the bear eats you.
