Steve Francis SG? or trade

He's a SG if I ever saw one. And he's only "good" becaues he so atheltic. Not because he's a great shooter/scorer. So, this is our last ditch effort.

Some say moving SF to the SG will be a defensive liability. I say, so what? We have Yao defending the post. AT LEAST we should try it before we trade Francis. What else do we have to loose?

 

yeah... some people say that Francis is a bigger A.I. -- okay in terms of athleticism sure maybe. but he doesn't have A.I.'s quickness and the ability to will the ball into the net. Francis certainly has more tools than A.I., but Iverson is a natural born pure scorer, one of the few the league has ever seen.

 

Steve reminds me of a smaller/quicker Jason Richardson.

Both are athletic, decent rebouders, not really "skilled" but rather raw in their playing styles.

So, it's true that Francis will not be able to score like A.I. But he will be able to do "grunt work" for the Rox. "Brute force" playing style just doesn't work as a PG. But it might as SG.

We'll still need a PG replacement. A tall player (above 6'5"). This will off-set a smaller SG (SF).

 

Francis isn't a SG. We've already seen him play it in Rudy's small ball lineup with Moochie and Cat. Remember much positive about it? I don't. Francis plays SG with Mark Jackson. Notice anything exceptional about it? I don't.

Allen Iverson is a SG because the Sixers let him dominate the ball. Francis does that now without having the label "SG". Real SG 's run off of baseline screens and get their shots in a "catch and shoot" style. Francis needs to dribble the ball to get his shooting rhythm.

IMO, Francis will never be a good proto-typical (Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, Alan Houston) SG. If you want him to be an Iverson SG, he's already that except without the license to take 25-30 shots per game.

 

Rudy never really had a system. It was just free-style. At least under JVG there is required moving without the ball. All I'm saying is try it under JVG.

Our problem is that we have a old PG (MJ). There's really no one else to play the PG.

Two types of SG: Scorers and shooters (some can do both). Francis is more a brute force scorer. Like Richardson.

Well, not really...but else would you call him? A PG?
I think the hardest thing for fans to see (two years ago) was that Francis is not great at either postion. He can't score like AI and he can't dish like Nash. He's decent/good at both. But never great.

 

Care to explain that one with more details? I mean there are tons of guys who can jump much higher than Francis and they'll never even make into the NBDL.

 

I knew someone wasn't going to get that.

Let me rephrase it. Francis is only "good" because of his natural athletic ability. Without that he'd be just another "decent player." (i.e. Not an All-Star; popularity).

 

is steve on the block?

I think everyone is taking the last weeks incident too seriously.
Steve is a BYC player, IMO, we won't trade him until the end of the season if we do trade him.

I have been reading a lot of crap from Marc Stein and Chad Ford about Steve and JVG's clash.

 

DavidS -
I normally don't bother to post on any of the Francis to SG threads. I have a very strong opinion that he's not a SG and I doubt anyone is going to change their minds and I'm certainly not changing mine. SG's IMO come in two varieties...traditonal and Iverson.

Van Gundy isn't going to let Francis free wheel like Iverson. He doesn't let him do it now at PG so changing Francis' title or who's on the floor with him is irrelevant. Iverson-type SG's work off of a dribble and Francis already does that now.

Again, repeating myself...the other "type" if SG is the Reggie Miller catch and shoot type. Francis is extremely poor at shooting that does not incorporate dribbling to get some since of rhythm. Cuttino Mobley is much better at splitting a double team. Other than Iverson, I can't think of another SG who splits doubles by cross-over moves. The majority (Mobley included) split doubles with a quick first step.

If you don't believe any of what I have stated, at least factor in that Van Gundy's controlled offense does not mesh well with Iverson-type ISO's. This is almost a verbatim Van Gundy quote..."I want Steve to take the same number of shots...just with less dribbling". The "less dribbling" is what's killing him now.

 

GATER,

Your solution is to just wait until the end of the year and trade him. Yes? No? Because I would be hard pressed to believe you want to keep him as our "PG."

All you are telling me is what can't be done. But you offer no solutions in the mean time.

What I'm asking is...what do we do until the summer(trade)? Nothing? Keep things as they are? What?

Because, trust me...I agree about a lot what you say about what Francis is NOT. You don't have to convince me about that.

 

IMO, the decision on Francis has 2 major components and neither will be resolved before the trade deadline...how well can/will Van Gundy and Francis co-exist and will the Rox make the playoffs (and not get swept if they do).

One of the few plus sides I can see to Francis at SG is it takes the decison making process out of his hands. I don't think he's a very good decision maker. But then we're forced to use MJax and Wilks at PG. Maybe if Jackson gets into a little better shape so that his shot returns and the D can't sag off of him...

If I'm wrong and Francis is the SG, that opens up the question of what to do with Mobley. NBA PG's are in shorter supply than SG's. So I guess my "solution" is to wait until Francis' BYC status expires and see what trade value he has. This assumes further friction with JVG and no or a poor playoff performance.

That's the best I can offer. I just don't view the Rox short-term in any sense of "panic mode".

 

Exactly...this is a big problem (above). It's the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" thing.

For example...
I've always felt (before the season started) that the "have Francis do less" method was the best solution for this year. And it HAS helped the team win more consistently (as well as other factors; JVG, system and defense). But I think we can go even futher with the "have Francis do less" at least until the end of this season. And that would be that he would have the ball in his hands even LESS; except for his scoring; this would help more (not bringing the ball up and less distribution). Take this responsibility out of Francis's hands (pun not intended). But he could still do SG type things like J. Richardson (scoring/rebounder). Although, I think the biggest slap in the face is Francis's max-contract. Too much money for too little contribution. And that sucks!

Now, what about the PG postion?....sigh....like I said....damed if you do, damed if you don't.

P.S. This is by no means is meant to be a permanent solution. Just offer less suffering (for fans) until summer. Note: I still want to keep Mobley even if Francis is traded.

 

DavidS -
I going to have to admit that I may have been wrong about Charlie Ward. I really didn't want him and did not think there was that much difference between him and MJax. I am waiting to see if Jackson can/will get into better physical shape. Weatherspoon appears to have gotten into better shape so maybe there's hope.

With the Charlotte expansion draft, this summer is going to be real interesting. The Celtics' PG Mike James is an unrestricted FA I like. He'd be a solid reasonably priced backup. There are actually a number of decent PG's next summer. Nothing spectacular...just decent. And that could be a good thing if no major trade is made for Francis or Mobley. But, I just have a gut level feeling that one of Cuttino or Steve is gone after next summer.

 

Funny you should say that about Ward. He's always remined me of Eric Snow.

I remember watching the old JVG led Knicks thinking, "The Knicks will aways be up and down when Chris Childs is running the point. Hot and cold. They should put Ward in...at least he's more soild at point and makes less mistakes."

Although, Ward was less a scorer than Childs. He was good at all aspects of the PG. He had quarterback mentality! Ha another pun!

 

Does anybody notice that Rox SG rarely runs off baseline and does catch-n-shoot? They always stand to do catch-n-shoot or dribble to shoot.

Watch Kings game, their PG and SG runs nonstop on offense end to get open.

 

Trade - He's too short for SG. You'd have to get a Magic Johnson type PG to cover the D end of the court and those guys don't grow on trees. Trade him to the East Coast.