"During the season, you make your name. In the playoffs, you make your fame." - Nate "Tiny" Archibald Does anyone remember the battle that Tracy McGrady had with Glenn "Big Dog" Robinson? What about the great come back spurred on by Boston's Antoine Walker, and finished by Paul Pierce against the New Jersey Nets? What about Mike Bibbi's clutch shooting against the LA Lakers? Who were these guys before these battles happened? Notice a trend here? They were just good players. McGrady, Pierce and Bibbi have elevated their games to "fame" status. They earned the label of "greatness" after their performances in the PLAYOFFS. Before that, they had lead NBA lives in relative anonymity. In the last 10 years, I'd say that that only two players had "fame" before they even made the playoffs were Shaq (he's big!), and Grant Hill. Allen Iverson managed to get famous (or should I say infamous) in more ways than one! But other than that, you really have to earn your name! Even Kobe had to. Why am I bring this up? Well, as I watch TNT and ESPN or browse through any of the numerous basketball magazines. I notice that no one really knows about Francis. Not really. Not in the same vein as say, Vince Carter or even Paul Pierce. I mean, come on! Paul Pierce!!! That guy was a relative UNKNOWN just ONE YEAR AGO! See, that's all it takes: in the playoff you make your fame! Now of course, just *making it* to the playoffs isn't good enough. You must make your mark on history. You must perform at a new level. You must do something *great*! Steve Francis has a wake-up call coming if we make it to the playoffs. But I'm not really worried about what will happen. Win or lose, they guys has to learn! And he will. But just showing up to the playoffs wont help Francis. He has to prove that he's good enough! He has to show something that people will remember him for. Then and only then will he be considered worth of being named in the same sentence as Payton, Jordan, Kobe, and yes, even Paul Pierce. Note: In regards to this post, FAME does NOT mean "popularity." It means, "legendary" or "greatness" in terms of a performance. Making your NAME means, "popular." Which is where Francis is at now: he's popular. But people don't remember "popular." They remember "greatness." That's real FAME!
Well here is something that I can tell you right now about Stevie. The dude is the MVP so far this season. You can actually see the fear in his opponents' faces. I haven't seen a Rocket scare people that bad when he has the ball since Hakeem in his prime. The guard who has his duty has the same look that the guards on Jordan used to have - that "oh f^ck... not again" look. I am loving it. I hope he keeps it up. That game against the blazers reminded me of how Hakeem used to just hoist the team up on his shoulders and say - boys I am taking us home, get on.
To the same degree as the playoffs will? Yeah, that's what I think of when I remember Hakeem, Jordan, West, and Bird. It's those All-Star games....not!
Can anyone honestly bet against Francis dominnating even more in the playoffs? He's one of those players that just snap in the playoffs. They become possesed. Even his teammates don't recognize him anymore. I can see it so perfectly, like I already HAVE. I know Francis will accomplish all this, that's why I'm not worried.
I wouldnt bet against him doing it, but I wouldnt necessarily bet for him. If Steve keeps up the 30PPG pace while continuining to not get his teamates involved, then hes going to start taking a pounding physcially from defenses that consistantly collpase 2 or 3 players on him in the lane to stop him (look at what Wallace did ......my bet is, this will happen several times this season). So what will he have left come playoff time? Granted, Iverson was always beat up come playoff time and still put his team deep into the playoffs, but Iverson also didnt have the weapons (potentially) that Steve has. Steve needs to start using that to his advantage so he can stay healthy for the times when we will really need him to step up his game.
I'm thoroughly excited with how Francis has been developing. The guy has the right attitude to go with the skills. I liked what I saw at the last game with Portland. There's so much we could comment about there. In just the area of getting his teammates involved he certainly did a great job of doing that. He is definitely becoming the leader of the team. He is definitely going to the next level in his development which is playing smarter and making the right on-court decisions. I have no worries about his fame.
Man, who is an elite player in your mind? This guy is a great player. I shudder to think of how much worse the USA team would have looked if it wasn't for Pierce carrying them for the entire tournament. The guy was clearly head and shoulders above every other player on that team.
none of the guys on that usa team were elite players. elite players can carry a team to the playoffs on their own. the only guys i see that fit that description in the nba are: 1) shaq 2) duncan 3) tmac 4) dirk 5) iverson 6) kg 7) jason kidd 8) gary payton i expect francis to joint that list after this year. the way he's playing warrants inclusion.
I agree with you here, but they are all stars, and when a player is carrying a team of all stars that should say something. What is is about Dirk that causes you consider him an elite player but not Pierce? (By the way, I also consider Dirk an elite player) Also, is that list complete? Do you not consider Kobe an elite player either?
although dirk has not been put in the position of "having to", i really believe dirk "could" carry a team on his own. he has the complete package - size (7footer), shooting, decent post game, good rebounding, and *now* he's even playing defense. it's hard to put that package in a 7 foot body and NOT have an elite player! (see: garnett, kevin) as for kobe, i've always thought that kobe was overrated. as long as he has the luxury of playing with a center that commands triple teams, he'll never be put in the category with mcgrady. it's funny, but people fail to acknowledge that kobe does not consistently face double teams and be forced with the challenge of having to beat them consistently. that - to me - is another prerequisite of being an elite player. you have to be able to consistently handle the double teams (either by scoring, passing, etc.) but kobe hasn't had to face that. pierce on the other hand, just doesn't, imo, have enough skill to carry a team on his own. his shooting is extremely streaky, his passing is below average, and his defense is below average. is he a good player? hell yes!!! pierce can get hot and go for 45 pretty quickly!! but to carry a team on his own (as in without antoine walker)? nope. i even heard tommy heinson (celtc play by play guy) saying as much. players that can carry a team BY THEMSELVES to the playoffs are exceptional, exceptional players. and they are usually big men. to find that kind of skill in a smaller body requires a man with a full package (and a full package of skills, as well)
Sorry Verse but I am going to have to call your BS on this one. You just said Pierce couldn't carry a team on his own?!?!?!? Who in the hell else is on the Celtics and how can you explain the 20% increase in their win percentage after he came to town. Walker is a decent player but he is in no way responsible for their success. They don't have crap except pierce. Pierce is freaking sick. Have you ever watched a couple of Celtic Games man? Did you watch the playoffs last year dude? What in the Big Momma **** are you talking about?
remember MJ? When Collins moved him to the '1' for awhile (due to injuries) I believe he went from name to fame. When Pierce learns to give love (see World Championships) he'll go from name to fame. When Steve Francis learns to trust and love (most) all his teammates (see MJ)then he'll go all the way to FRANCHISE! He's on the way!
Verse, You put up a good list that I can use as an example... In order for Francis to achieve the "elite" status he must beat one of the elite teams above. I mean, imagine if the Rockets make it to the 1st round, but we get swept. Not good (even one win isn't very impressive). But, if we beat Dirks team, or Gary's team, or Shaq forbid, the Lakers! (ok, I'm dreaming now ) This will propel Francis into the stratosphere in terms of his elite status. Francis (Rockets) MUST BEAT THE BEST, TO BE THE BEST! P.S. The sad part is that if we squeak into the playoffs, we'll probably have to play the Kings. And they wont be messing around. That's why I stress TEAM so much. In the end, it's the Rockets against the Kings/Mavs/Lakers, etc...
i've watched plenty of celtic games this year and last. i like the celts. so far this year, toine is putting up 19.6 ppg, 8.1rpg & 5.0 assists. last year, toine put up 22.1 ppg, 8.8rpg & 5.0 assists per game. did you just say "They don't have crap except pierce"?????? by comparison, pierce is putting up 24.9 ppg 6.6rpg & 5.5 assists last year, pierce put up 26.1 ppg 6.9rpg & 3.2 assists boston is CLEARLY a two headed monster. pierce may be the accepted "leader", but toine is NOT far behind. either way, i don't believe pierce could carry that team w/o toine. that's the Big Momma **** i'm talking about !!!
Stats don't mean crap. You can't watch Paul Pierce play and not say to yourself "This guy is good" Just like watching SF or TMac. They just outclass everyone else. It is true that none of these three is anywhere near Jordan or even Payton, but give them time. Niether Jordan nor Payton accomplished a hill of beans before their late twenties/early thirties. PP,SF and TMac are all still very young and inexperienced. No one knew Jordan was goin to be Jordan back when they had that big red headed white guy playing center for the Bulls right before Cartwright came to town. I remember watching those games thinking "this guy Jordan has some skills, it would be nice to see him have some success." One of these three is going to be like that. Hell, remember when Shaq looked lost out there against Hakeem. I think we can go ahead and say that in the last four years or so he has developed into the most dominant player in the game. I am just saying Pierce obviously has that kind of potential, I mean what is he... twenty three? two?
Pierce IS an elite player. He has been a little bit on the edge between very good and elite, but last year I think he proved he is. The top SGs are: Kobe, Vince, T-Mac(Yeah 3/2, whatever), AI, and Pierce. The next level has Ray Allen and Stack. The level after that has Cat, Spree, some others.
All of our defintions of elite are subjective obviously, and because of that, no one will agree. Personally, my definition of elite has to include making your teamates better. Therefore, IMO, the following players are elite: Duncan Shaq Payton Iverson (arguable) Kidd McGrady I thought about including Nowitzki and Garnett. I think they are just outside this group.
