Steve ain't a classy guy warning---->longgg

Hello, as you can obviously tell my nick, I am a Vancouver Grizzlies fan. I decided to start a new thread for this topic that originated in the Swift thread because it has nothing to do with Swift and everything to do with Francis. Warning, this is an extremly long post, so if you want to reply, please give it the dignity it deserves, and read everything I have to say.

Firstly, this post is not going to have one derogatory comment towards the Houston Rockets Organization, to the city of Houston, or to the fans of the Houston Rockets. I infact have nothing but praise for the Houston Rockets, especially in the way they are dealing with Hakeem. I was pleasantly suprised to hear Rudy T, outright saying he wanted to keep the dream even though he is obviously not his former self with injuries and medical problems. That, to me, shows this organization is a classy one and one day I hope I can say the same about the Vancouver organization.

Instead, this post is to enlighten some of you on factual events that occured in the '99-'00 NBA campaign that leads me to believe that Francis just isn't a classy guy. I know most of you by now are saying, geez, I know what this Vancouver chump is going to say, he is going to highlight what happened at the draft, yada yada yada, we've all heard it before, right? Well, I am going to do that, but, that is far from being the focal point of my argument, so read on:

OK, before one can say who is a classy guy and who is not, one has to define the meaning of classy. In the Collins English Language Dictionary, there are 7 meanings for the word class. Only one pertains in this topic and here it is:

If you say that someone or something has class, you mean they have a quality or demeanor of elegance and sophistication.

Ok, what follows is a linear timeline of highlights of what Francis did in his rookie season that does not fit the definition which was defined above of what it means to be a classy guy.

Event #1:
Pre-draft
This is something I am not too sure many Rockets fans are aware of because frankly, at that time, you wern't in a position to draft one of the highly touted prospect, so you probably don't know much about it.

During of the pre-draft gatherings, several of the top prospects were doing photo shoots and interviews and media relations type deal. It was in one of these gatherings that a photograph was taken of Francis doing an obscure gesture in which he rasied both hands above his head with his index finger touching his thumb with his other three fingers extended and his hands twisted to make what appeared like some sort of symbol. It was not until after Francis was drafted, when this symbol was identified by local Vancouver experts as a gang gesture which a member of a certain gang (can't remember if it was specified) did to someone else which symbolied that person was to be marked or to be put on their hit list (obviously to to be killed). When Francis was later approached about this, he admitted doing it and said he shouldn't have and that if his Grandmother found out, she would be disapointed with him. Francis does not dispute doing it, he knew what he was doing when he did it, the picture of Francis doing that gesture exists, and so this event is completly factual.

This is the first event of Francis' already short NBA career in which he did what I see as a classless act. By the definition above, this would not be the act of a person who had class.

Event #2
The draft. When a player plays in the NBA, make no mistake about it, they are extremely privalidged to be there. There are millions of people in this world suffering and starving, while NBA players can do what they love to do and get paid millions and millions of dollars doing it. They are lucky. When a player signs on to enter the NBA entry draft, they have absolutely no control to which team they go to. They know this, their agents know this, their family knows this, the fans know this, the NBA knows this, and that are the conditions that are pre-set before they declare for the draft. If they do not like these conditions, then they can finish school and play out their lives like regular people. However, to go on to the NBA through the entry draft, those are the rules, and they are not going to be broken for any individual. Francis knew this as well, however, he still declared even though he knew that Vancouver was one of the worst teams before the lottery and had a legitimate shot at taking him. Francis made explicitly clear to Vancouver during workouts that he didn't want to play on the Grizzlies. The choice, however, is not his to make. As I said before, once you declare for the Entry draft, that is it and you play for where you are drafted. Otherwise, players can take it one step further and say, I will not play for any other team other than X (where X = Washington or whoever) Then what would the point be of the draft? Another example: Say in this years draft all the players who Houston could draft told Houston they didn't want to play for the Rockets. Would you draft them anyways or would you get a player that you felt was worst just because the better players told you to back off?

When Vancouver drafted him anyways, Francis immediately put on a disgusted face, strutted onto the stage and proceeded to make fun of the city of Vancouver as well as the Vancouver Grizzlies organization and to some extent Canada as a country.

Many of you have defended Francis by rationalizing it, saying he told Vancouver beforehand, and that Francis didn't want to play shooting guard, and that he would be too far away from his Grandmother. The fact of the matter is it didn't matter if Francis told Vancouver beforehand. The moment he declared for the draft, he has to go the team that drafted him, regardless. Those are the rules and they are not in question. On the matter of Francis playing shooting guard, the fact is he played shooting guard for the whole year at Maryland and not only that he even played some shooting guard with the Rockets when Moochie Norris came off the bench. The fact is Francis could easily play shooting guard like Iverson did, like the tandem of Dumars and Isiah Thomas did, like he himself did with the Rockets and Maryland but he used it as an excuse to not play in Vancouver. The other argument Francis made was that he would be far from his Grandmother. Well, he is in Houston now, as happy as ever, and he is still extremly far away from his Grandmother. But, this is all besides the point, after Francis was drafted, he disrespected an entire city with his comments and his demeanor to the entire NBA world and I would argue that the Grizzlies organization still haven't fully recovered from the image he painted with one stroke of his brush.

This is obviously one of the events that was not a classy one by Stevie. Instead, a classy individual who didn't want to play in Vancouver would have played out his obligation, collect his millions of dollars and then sign a contract with a team he does want to play for afterwards.

Event #3
This is early in the season, in a game with Houston versus Dallas. All of my quotes from this point on are uncut and undamaged. You can find the stories in their entirity from the links I will provide.

"Rockets rookie point guard Steve Francis was ejected after he pulled down Nowitzki, who was attempting a layup, with 2:57 left in the first half and the Mavericks ahead 48-43.
Nowitzki fell to the ground, scrambled to his feet and reacted angrily. Both teams converged and began pushing and shoving, with Francis taking a punch at Pack in the middle of the tangle.
Referee Don Vaden said Francis was ejected because he grabbed Nowitzki by the jersey and then pulled him down with a second motion.
"The first contact was unnecessary and the second was excessive," Vaden said. "The punch had nothing to do with it.""

link: http://www.nba.com/games9900/991116/houdal/recap.html

This was obviously a situation where a he did not act in a classy way. Firstly, the flagrant foul which warranted him to be thrown out of the game. Secondly, he threw a punch, which was not even a factor when he was thrown out shows a very unclassy behavior.

Event #4
When Houston played Seattle, this was a smaller event.

"Payton and Francis, who often is compared to the Seattle star, each earned technical fouls midway through the third quarter for jawing with each another."

This is obviously a smaller event, so I won't go into it too much.

Event #5
During the first game Francis came back to Vancouver, he was served a technical for taunting the Vancouver bench. This is also a smaller event so I won't go into it too much.

Event #6
During the Charlotte game, here is the quote from the recap:
"When Francis was tied up by Wesley in the first quarter and didn't get a foul call, Francis glared at referee Ken Mauer for several seconds. Mauer was unimpressed with the rookie's tactics. "What are you looking at?" Mauer shot back. "Play the game." "

link: http://www.nba.com/games9900/20000222/houcha/recap.html

Event #7
This is a game versus the Denver Nuggets, here is a quote from a recap of the game:
"Rookie Steve Francis, Houston's leading scorer, was held scoreless for the first time in his prefessional career.
Francis was ejected from the game with 3:09 left in the third period after a flagrant foul on Abdul-Wahad as he drove to the basket.
Francis suffered a chipped tooth and cut his lower lip requiring several stitches. Abdul-Wahad suffered a lacerated left elbow on the play."

Here is the link to that recap: http://www.nba.com/games9900/20000224/denhou/recap.html

This event is only one of many of Francis' actions during his rookie season that I feel was not classy. He got ejected again for his flagrant foul, this was not the first ejection.

Event #8
In the post game comments after a loss to Utah, this is a quote from the recap of the game:
"Francis was sour afterward in the Houston dressing room.
"They're an aggressive, cheap-shot sort of team," Francis said."

link: http://www.nba.com/games9900/20000309/houuth/recap.html

I think this is not what a classy individual will say about another team after they lost. This is why I included his coments.

Event #9
This is from the recap of the Houston versus Milwakee game:
"Notes: Francis picked up a technical for firing his mouth guard into the crowd after being called for an offensive foul with 45.6 seconds left in the second. ... "

link: http://www.nba.com/games9900/20000316/houmil/recap.html

This is another event I don't feel a classy person would do, read on.

Event #10
This is a game with Houston versus Toronto. Here is a quote from the recap:

"Francis was called for a flagrant foul when he clotheslined Carter in the second quarter."

link: http://www.nba.com/games9900/20000319/houtor/recap.html

The foul was just another flagrant one by Francis. It was unnecessary and unwarranted on Vince Carter. NBA players do not clothe line their opponents unless there in a ring like Malone and Rodman. This was obviously not a classy manouver by Francis.

Event #11
This would be the last game of Francis in Vancouver in his rookie season. There are actually 2 distinct events that occured on that evening, so first here is a quote of the recap of the game:
"Steve Francis egged on Mike Bibby , and the Grizzlies point guard gave the Houston rookie another reason to despise Vancouver.
Francis was talkative on the court, and at one point dunked over 7-footer Bryant Reeves to give the Rockets an 8-point lead in the third quarter.
But Bibby responded to the talking and the challenge.
"He can do whatever he wants to do. That's the type of player he is," said Bibby, who had 10 assists and set a club record for being in double digits in that category for the fourth straight contest. "He's not going to change. It doesn't bother me. It's going to get (him) somehow. My mom told me a long time ago just to keep my mouth shut and just play."
Francis' dunk over Vancouver seven-footer Bryant Reeves gave Houston an 71-53 lead. Francis was in search of high-fives from anyone who would give one, including Rockets broadcaster Calvin Murphy. "

link: http://www.nba.com/games9900/20000404/houvan/recap.html

The first unclassy act was the trash talking he did throughout the game. By definition of class, one would not "egg" your opponent on during games. Being classy by definition is acting in a sophisticated way which implies sportsmanship type behavior. Francis obviously didn't display this throughout the game and throughout the season. There are countless demostrations of Francis trash talking other guys that I did not include like an incident involving Stackhouse. Needless to say, this is the first unclassy event in this game.

Event #12
In the same game as above, after the big dunk past Big Country, Francis did something that only the fans attending the game saw. He turned around while skipping back and SLOWLY mouthed the words "FU**-YOU-VAN-COU-VER". He did this to the crowd which included young children who sat close to courtside. There are numerous eye witness accounts to this by fans who attended the game. Here is the best account:

link: http://boards.go.com/cgi/espn/request.dll?MESSAGE&room=nba_van&id=16778

and
http://boards.go.com/cgi/espn/request.dll?MESSAGE&room=nba_van&id=16779

These two posts were from a fan who attended the game at GM Place and to the most minute details, describes his encounter with Francis during the game and how and when Francis yelled out FU-- YOU VANCOUVER!!


In conclusion, I am going to say right now, that in my personal opinion Francis will be a huge star in this league. He did things as a rookie point guard that are absolutely astounding. If you look at the great point guards in this league such as Kidd, Payton, Stockton, Francis had a better rookie year than all of them. This leaves me to believe he will be a big star if he isn't already. You Rockets fans shouldn't be defensive when Vancouver fans talk to you about Francis, you should be thanking us for giving you your franchise player. You didn't have to suffer through a season like we did so that you could get a player of the Francis' calibre, yet you got him anyways. In short, I do think Francis will eventually be a premier point guard in the NBA.

However, to say that Francis is a classy guy is almost short of being insane. Francis has displayed time and time again throughout his rookie season to not have any class. One might argue that getting technicals, trash talking, and flagrant fouls shouldn't be part of what defines classy, but it is. The definition of classy is elegance and sophistication something that doesn't involve any of the above activities. How many times have you seen Steve Smith flagrantly fouling someone? How many times have you seen John Stockton trash talking? How many times have you seen Joe Dumars get ejected? The makeup of the classiest people in the NBA do not engage in any of the activities that Francis does on and off the court. This is speculation, however, I think that Francis in his rookie season alone has more ejections and technicals than all of Bibby, Dickerson, and Shareef combined.

But Francis didn't do just the trash talking, technicals, and flagrant fouls. He dis'ed an entire city and country of which he knew practically nothing about. He got into fights, throwing punches. He showed gang symbols connotating killing someone. He sweared at children and fans during the game. These are all not the activities you would find in a classy guy.

You have to agree on that.




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To Rocketsauce:
Sorry, I cannot find his comments as they happened 1 year ago, and all the websites have erased the draft stories a long time ago.

To Francis3:
I promised not to say anything bad to any Rockets fan, and so I won't reply to your message.

To Puedlfor:
I know many other players have displayed classless behavior and even worst than what Francis displayed. However, my intent was to show that he was not a classy person, not if he was classier than other people who have disgraced the NBA.

To JayZ750:
Yes, indeed Francis knew what he was doing with the gang symbols, and it was reported on some of the major websites like I believe cnnsi.com. Francis said afterwards he apologizes for doing it and that he was goofing off or something to that effect.

About the technicals, flagrant fouls, and ejections: That is not part of the game of basketball. Of course, it doesn't mean many people don't do it, they do. But doing it means punishment by the NBA head office or by the referees so obviously it isn't simply part of the game. The classiest players in the NBA try to refrain from doing it at all, and if you watch them play, you can see if they disagree with a call they will always walk away from the ref.

To davo:
I agree, I painted a one sided picture which is mostly because, all the info I got were from when he was still a Grizzly, when he comes to Vancouver, and the recaps of games, or from games that are televised nationally. I haven't heard all the good things that he does, but I do credit him as a player as you see in my post, and I really believe he will be a great player from watching him.

I agree that throwing tomatoes and batteries is not a classy act as well. It was only an isolated few fans who did that, but it was not classy nevertheless. Of course, I didn't personally attend that game.... But I can gurantee you that behavior would not have occured if Francis didn't say the things he did to Vancouver.




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TexaSalsa:
Sorry, I can't really understand what you are writing because of the spacing and format is very hard on the eyes.

However, I saw the top part of your message says the reason Francis said F-U Vancouver was because people were throwing batteries and tomatoes at him. This, however, is not true. He said F-U Vancouver in his 2nd visit to GM Place. The tomatoes were thrown in his first visit to GM Place. And they didn't come close to hitting Francis, as the tomatoe was thrown from the upper decks.

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Pole:
It might be hard for you to believe, but I let it go along time ago. I still dislike Francis naturally, as I am a Grizzlies fan. However, he barely comes into my train of thought unless Vancouver plays Houston or whatever. I remember all those events, because naturally I will pay attention to his career as he and the Grizzlies will always be intertwined. I wrote the long post only after reading through the thread about Swift, I was shocked to see that Rockets fans actually thought he was classy.

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Nolen:

Good reply. As a matter of fact, I happen to dislike Pippen as well, especially after the way he went about to get traded to the Blazers. In fact, although I don't especially like LA, I am rooting for them solely becaue Pippen is on the Blazers and I want to make sure he never gets a championship without Michael and so he will always be known as the best "second banana".

As for Vancouver and its Black population, Vancouver is actually a very multicultural city. It is not filled with white people. A lot of the schools have a more ethnic background than caucasian. I, myself am not white. I, however, did not know that kids in America like to pose using gang symbols. I would argue that it still doesn't happen when you are dealing with classy individuals.

As for my other points being weak. They are weak if you are arguing that Francis is a totally bad person. I am not. I am arguing Francis is not a classy guy, and to that point, I believe flagrant fouls, ejections, and trash talking serves to that purpose. People who are classy usually refrain from doing that which is why I used it in my argument.

Lastly, yes, I think Hakeem and Mike are classy guys. You point out that earlier in their careers that they did things that could not be construed as being classy. I agree. However, they turned it around and now they are class acts. Francis, too, can turn it around and become a mentor for the NBA, a model of excellence. However, as of now, Francis has not done that, so you can't classify him as classy until he does.

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