I guess the democratic montra is "If you can't beat em on ideas, cheat!" I could help but laugh at this quote...."I like the Democrats. I want to vote for Democrats, but I don't have citizenship," he said. States Weigh Letting Noncitizens Vote PORTLAND, Maine -- Like his neighbors, Claude Rwaganje pays taxes on his income and taxes on his cars. His children have gone to Portland's public schools. He's interested in the workings of Maine's largest city, which he has called home for 13 years. There's one vital difference, though: Rwaganje isn't a U.S. citizen and isn't allowed to vote on those taxes or on school issues. That may soon change. Portland residents will vote Nov. 2 on a proposal to give legal residents who are not U.S. citizens the right to vote in local elections, joining places like San Francisco and Chicago that have already loosened the rules or are considering it. Noncitizens hold down jobs, pay taxes, own businesses, volunteer in the community and serve in the military, and it's only fair they be allowed to vote, Rwaganje said. "We have immigrants who are playing key roles in different issues of this country, but they don't get the right to vote," said Rwaganje, 40, who moved to the U.S. because of political strife in his native Congo and runs a nonprofit that offers financial advice to immigrants. Opponents of the measure say immigrants already have an avenue to cast ballots -- by becoming citizens. Allowing noncitizens to vote dilutes the meaning of citizenship, they say, adding that it could lead to fraud and unfairly sway elections. "My primary objection is I don't think it is right, I don't think it is just, I don't think it is fair," Portland resident Barbara Campbell Harvey said. In San Francisco, a ballot question Nov. 2 will ask voters whether they want to allow noncitizens to vote in school board elections if they are the parents, legal guardians or caregivers of children in the school system. Noncitizens are allowed to vote in school board elections in Chicago and in municipal elections in half a dozen towns in Maryland, said Ron Hayduk, a professor at the City University of New York and author of "Democracy for All: Restoring Immigrant Voting Rights in the United States." New York City allowed noncitizens to vote in community school board elections until 2003, when the school board system was reorganized, and several municipalities in Massachusetts have approved allowing it but don't yet have the required approval from the Legislature, he said. The Maine ballot questions asks whether legal immigrants who are city residents but not U.S. citizens should be allowed to vote in municipal elections. If the measure passes, noncitizens would be able to cast ballots in school board, city council and school budget elections, as well as other local issues, but not on federal or statewide matters. The Maine League of Young Voters, which spearheaded the drive to force the question on the ballot, estimates there are 5,000 to 7,500 immigrants in Portland, roughly half of whom are not U.S. citizens. They come from more than 100 countries, with the two largest groups from Somalia and Latin America. On a recent day in a small lunchroom at the Al-Amin Halal Market, a group of Somali men ate lunch and talked in their native language. A sign advertised the day's offerings, including hilib ari (goat), bariis (rice) and baasto (spaghetti). Abdirizak Daud, 40, moved to Minneapolis 18 years ago before coming to Portland in 2006. He hasn't been able to find a job. Some of his nine children have attended Portland schools, and he'd like to have a say in who's looking over the school system and the city, he said. But between his limited English and the financial demands, Daud hasn't been able to become a citizen. "I like the Democrats. I want to vote for Democrats, but I don't have citizenship," he said. To become a citizen, immigrants must be a lawful permanent resident for at least five years, pass tests on English and U.S. history and government, and swear allegiance to the United States. Supporters of Portland's ballot measure say the process is cumbersome, time-consuming and costly. The filing fee and fingerprinting costs alone are $675, and many immigrants spend hundreds of dollars more on English and civics classes and for a lawyer to help them through the process. Allowing noncitizens to vote fits with basic democratic principles, Hayduk said. Historically, 40 states allowed noncitizens to vote going back to 1776, but an anti-immigrant backlash in the late 1800s and early 1900s resulted in laws that eliminated their voting rights by 1926, Hayduk said. "We look back in history and we say that was a bad thing that we didn't allow African-Americans to vote, or we didn't allow half the population, women, to vote, or we didn't allow younger people to vote," he said. "We've modified our election laws to become more inclusive to incorporate more members of society." The Federation for American Immigration Reform, a Washington, D.C., group that advocates tougher immigration enforcement, says voting is a privilege and should be limited to citizens. "People who are legal immigrants to the United States after a five-year waiting period can become citizens and become enfranchised," spokesman Ira Mehlman said. "But until then, being here as a legal immigrant is a conditional agreement, sort of like a trial period. You have to demonstrate you are the type of person we would want to have as a citizen, then you can become a citizen and vote."
oh lord, these topics would actually be interesting if you weren't such a paranoid wingnut. i'm sure every immigrant who wants to vote isn't a democrat, i would even bet most of them probably lean more conservative because of the values that have brought them this far.
And some non-citizens would like to vote for Republicans. Big deal. They can't. If local governments seriously attempt to do this, the courts will laugh as they toss it out.
Hmm. I thought you were all about Tea Partying - you know, going back to how we used to do things? But separately, I don't see much problem with this. It's not like this applies to state or national elections - it's purely local issues and things like schools, where those legal immigrants are active parts of the local community. Funny that you consider the idea of people voting on an issue to decide whether it should be legal to be "cheating". Tells us how much you actually value the concept of democracy.
You really don't see a problem with it? Hey, if they're voting for class president at school, who cares? These are actual elections. I can't imagine that it would be legal.
As usual you guys try and paint me into the image you feel comfortable attacking. The rules are pretty clear here, if you are citizen you can vote, if you are not you cannot vote; it has nothing to do with party affiliation. My wife is an immigrant who would like to vote but until she reaches that time window she is unable to; and frankly I am ok with that because that is the proper way to do things.
I know Major already commented on this, but it's hilarious when people's hypocrisy is exposed in such a glaring fashion. Tea Party crowd are only loyal to the founding fathers' intent when it aligns with their own prejudices and anger.
Except that Chicago and some other municipalities already allow non-citizens to vote in municipal elections. I am against this but given how limited the proposals are, school board and municipal elections, am not that bothered by it. I think if it came to something on par with statewide elections that would be a problem.
And the courts have no problem with it? I'm seriously surprised. Has it been tested in the courts? For me, it's not about trying to deprive anyone the right to vote, it is simply that I always assumed you had to be a US citizen to do so. If that's not the case, again, I'm surprised.
hey paranoid winger, you're the one accusing democrats of wanting to cheat by getting these votes in your original post. you paint yourself
It was legal for most of our history. Each state and locality can determine their own voting rules for local elections. Citizenship rules only apply to national elections.
Yes - the rules ARE pretty clear. You just don't know them. They are that localities can determine their own voting rules and may or may not choose to use citizenship as a test. You're the one that painted your own image by, as usual, not having the first clue about what you're discussing - even though, in this case, the answer was included in the very article you posted and probably didn't read very carefully.
Then I freely admit to being wrong. Still a bit surprised, but if it's only national elections, then it must be only national elections! Wow.
To follow up on Major's post. I don't know the history of non-citizen voting and whether it has been challenged in the courts but I don't think in regard to things like school board or city councils it would be unconstitutional. I think based on Federalism those type of non-Federal offices it would be left up to the states to determine who is qualified to vote, as they already do.
What's the point!? As long as I've been alive, and even before that, it hasn't mattered what party controlled the government. The government is still going to **** over the common man. When will people learn!?
Breaking news from the Texas Legislature.... HCR BR549 The following privileged resolution was laid before the house: HCR BR549 WHEREAS, HB BR549 has been adopted by the house of representatives and the senate and is being prepared for enrollment; and WHEREAS, The bill contains technical errors that should be corrected; now, therefore, be it RESOLVED by the 80th Legislature of the State of Texas, That the enrolling clerk of the house of representatives be instructed to make the following correction: In SECTION 10 of the bill, in added Section 81.003, Voting Rights Code, as amended by Senate Floor Amendment No. 1, insert "idiot Tea Party morans will be disenfranchised and subject to public ridicule, while legal and illegal aliens will be allowed to cast two votes for Democrats".
I dunno Grumplestiltskin. Maybe when they stop driving over paved roads, sending their kids to public schools, using reliable power supply 24 hours a day anywhere in the country....
Interesting idea. I think I'd be down with it. Wondering what would be my comfort around allowing noncitizens to vote in state-wide elections.