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Starting Pitching injuries

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by mkahanek, Sep 5, 2016.

  1. sealclubber1016

    Supporting Member

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    If I had told you at the start of the year, there would be a 20 game stretch in the heart of the pennant chase (11 against playoff teams) in which Keuchel and McCullers would combine for 2 starts, while McHugh and Fister would have ERAs around 7 during the stretch, survival would have felt like a best case scenario.

    We've managed to go 13-7
     
  2. conquistador#11

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    We're running out of ammmo!!

    [​IMG]


    disappointed we didn't acquire a starting arm other than fister, but it's still been impressive that the astros have held it together for this long.
     
  3. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    Testament to how much overall talent we have

    Hope the window is open as long as we think it will be
     
  4. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Obligatory should have gone 20-0 post.
     
  5. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Adding Bregman and Gurriel has helped a lot.
     
  6. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    We would have gone 21 and -1 if it were not for Hinch. Damn you, Hinch.
     
  7. HTM

    HTM Member

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    So do we have any information on a timetable for Keuchel or McCullers to return?
     
  8. Buck Turgidson

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    No. Maybe soon, maybe not.
     
  9. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    Not that this in any way is an indictment on lunhows trades , but we have given up a ton of young sp prospects and depth over the last few years . It is true what they say you can never have enough pitching . At this point we have to rely on musgrove and mchugh to step it up . Our offense has been streaky all year and even with the addition of bregman and gurriel it's still going to rely on power surges to be formidable . Altuve Correa and springer are all slumping a bit and might be getting worn down .

    I like our own especially with the new callups , but we are just so young we don't have enough guys with proven records on either side of the ball .

    Pitching injuries aren't unpredictable. It is unpredictable who they will happen to , but for the majority of teams it's a given that they happen . We've actually been exceptionally lucky the last two years to have kuechel and mchugh be so healthy ( only Colin has had a minor blister issue)

    We may get lucky again next year . We need guys like devo and musgrove and Paulino and feliz to be ready next year when called upon for starts . The free agent pitching market is always super overpriced unless you are shopping at the bottom of the barrel . Trades are nice , but you also have to give up a lot and given how much we've given up I'm not sure how much more farm depth Jeff wants to trade away .
     
  10. Buck Turgidson

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    Who? Hader and who?
     
  11. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    Tropeano , Velasquez, appel , oberholtzer, megden , Folty, Thurman, Feldman , and cosart . Sure most didn't pan out . Most are still in the minors and might stay there forever . But they were arms and fairly well regarded arms . They could have been developed differently here or maybe not . I'm not saying they were bad trades . I'm just saying that we traded them .
     
  12. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Probably referring to VV... and Megden?

    But yeah... its an underwhelming group that would be unlikely to reverse the current fortunes, VV included.
     
  13. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    A lot of junk in there. Do you honestly think they're all not replaceable?
     
  14. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    alot of junk that was traded for MLB players . I feel like you are trying to argue with me , I'm just stating the facts .
     
  15. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    No... not trying to argue.

    They've pretty much done what they should have... traded a surplus of good (not great) pitching prospects for either established MLB talent or possibly better prospects (some of them being pitchers).

    Just stating the facts as well.
     
  16. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    Right that's the way it has worked out . I was presenting a slightly playful counterfactual of what could have happened had they not . The pitchers would not have been developed in the same manner ( maybe for the worse or for the better )

    I think lunhow made the right call . But let's not pretend that these guys were all middling prospects . Velasquez , hader , Thurman (was a 1st rounder) , megden , Appel were all fairly valuable given the return .

    In hindsight I think the best move would have been to go after more pitching but the cost may have been too great .
     
  17. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    True... but only VV is looking like he'll actually carve out a decent MLB career... and that's only if he can stay healthy (still, a big if... and part of the impetus for choosing to trade him).

    The rest have disappointed.... which has to be factored into the equation when teams choose to get rid of guys when their value could be the highest. Not all these guys are going to make it. Hell, I've been saying for a few weeks that its doubtful that between Feliz, Musgrove, Martes, and Paulino that they all become solid rotation pieces.

    They tried to get Sale... would have given up a lot to get him... they cancelled the talks, not the Astros.
     
  18. Buck Turgidson

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    Of course Velasquez, who else?

    I do love the "if they had been developed elsewhere..." bunch of bullsh@t. Cosart was mentioned. Obie and Thurman? Guy that is out of baseball now? It does not matter, none cares do I give.

    People will be traded this winter and people will have regrets. Some trades will work and some will be talked about on this bbs for years.
     
  19. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    Agreed , it's just disappointing considering we really haven't "won" the trades either . It's easy to look at the prospects now and say they haven't panned out ; but , they did have value at the time . I think we all wish we could have gotten better players , but a lot of that is also luck.

    We are in a bit of a rut with our starting pitching next year . K and M are question marks and beyond that not much is settled either . We have traded quite a bit of prospects overall and don't have as much ammo . It's gonna be interesting to see what they do because we can't expect to compete given what our rotation will look like .

    Pitching is such a mystery. Players get hurt and players regress . Right now we are feeling some of that . We have to expect it to happen again next year. Maybe positive regression !! But the backbone for our rotation the last 2 years has been keuchel and mchugh with a dash of McCullers and Feldman . Feld is gone , kuechel and McCullers are hurt , and mchugh has been trending downward over the last two years in terms of velocity .

    It's a huge area for concern. I'm ****ing worried lol .
     
  20. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Who's saying that?

    They've won the Cosart trade, the Gattis trade is at least a push, but he's got value as a hitting catcher, the Kazmir trade is a push, and the Giles trade is still too close to call (and won't be able to be called for probably another 2-3 years).

    I suppose they lost the Gomez trade (mainly because of how bad he was)... but it still remains to be seen if they really lost any valuable prospects.

    It most certainly does matter that the guys they gave up didn't pan out... because that's the most likely plausible scenario if the Astros had kept them.

    In the end, they're either going to have to devote real resources to the position... or they're going to have to mix luck with some good fortune and shrewd scouting and find guys like McHugh, or a Keuchel (who goes from mediocre/awful... to cy young). Feliz, Martes, Paulino, Musgrove... at least one of them will do something.
     

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