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Starting Pitching injuries

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by mkahanek, Sep 5, 2016.

  1. The Beard

    The Beard Member

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    He was doing very well for the Astros. If the trade hadn't happened, it is more likely that he would have continued to do well. Being traded into a different team with different coaches in a different country...and a different role, can change things

    But if you are happy that Jimbo saved money, and we got Brad Peacock starting tonight...that's cool
     
  2. The Beard

    The Beard Member

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    That's all fine and well, and there is a lot of truth in what you are saying

    But in a pennant race, trading away a valuable veteran for someone who might possibly help us in 2020 (and the chances of him actually making it are probably less than 10%) is more about saving money, than anything else
     
  3. The Beard

    The Beard Member

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    Luhnow has done a great job of building up the overall talent in the organization, there is no doubt about that at all

    His management of the 25 man roster has not been anywhere near his ability to collect talent though

    To be fair to what you are saying, it was unfortunate that the McCullers injury happened only a couple of days after Feldman was moved....but there were other ways to get Musgrove on the roster. If I remember right we DFA'd Worth at the same time so that we could have brought Hoyt up. Could have easily DFA'd Worth and brought up Musgrove and waited on Hoyt. Feldman was very solid for us for his 2+ years here, would have been the perfect kind of guy to have around in a case like tonight. Every game matters so much
     
  4. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    Why would he be doing better with the Astros? You think their coaches broke him?

    Feldman actually has a much better FIP with the Blue Jays.
     
  5. The Beard

    The Beard Member

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    No I don't think their coaches "broke him"

    In fact all the complaining about hitting coaches and pitching coaches that some people bring up from time to time is pretty overrated in my opinion

    I do think going from one set of teammates and coaches, and nations for that matter, could possibly have a tiny bit of an impact on some people...not all people mind you, but some

    We are also talking about a very small sample size, and right after the deal he was really bad in 3 of his first 4 outings

    If we want to really look at his "body of work" in Toronto as what he would have been had he stayed, we can also say that after those first 4 outings for the Jays he has given up 2 runs in 8 2/3 innings. Heck, in his last 3 outings he hasn't given up a baserunner...

    I personally think he would be a better option than Brad Peacock, maybe a majority of the board disagrees
     
  6. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Hoyt looked good in the minors and Feldman was blocking him as well. Feldman would be nice to have around right now, but then someone who is now on 40-man couldn't be. If Luhnow could have sent Feldman to the minors, he would have sent to minors well before the deadline.

    Every game matters. Not just the next game. Luhnow waited as long as he could before trading Feldman so he could bring up better guys (or who he perceived as better). He never throws away a guy who can start unless he absolutely has to as he knows guys will get hurt.

    If it came down to money (which I doubt)...it was a Yuli or Feldman decision. I would choose Yuli. Astros chose Yuli.
     
    #26 Joe Joe, Sep 6, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
  7. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    We can't look at anything. What we know is that his FIP & xFIP said he wasn't as good as his ERA says he is. Would I prefer him to Brad Peacock? Yes, but even if he was here, it isn't guaranteed he would be available. Chris Devenski would strongly be my preference to either of those guys if the timing worked out. What I know 100% is that we won a game in which we scored the winning run off Scott Feldman.

    I'd take David Paulino over Brad Peacock.
     
  8. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Member

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    What's likely is that the 33-year old would have regressed back to his career average, which is that of a below-average MLB pitcher. The Astros sold high and the Blue Jays are getting the fall to the mean.

    And his role in Toronto is the same as it was here, at least the good part of his season here: spot-duty, low-impact relief.

    Yep; that's how it happened... they traded Feldman and BOOM! 37 days later, we finally feel the chilling effects of that ill-fated deal.

    We'll just pretend Dallas Keuchel and Lance McCullers are healthy and Feldman begat Peacock. Yep. And we'll forget that Devenski, who moved into Feldman's role, has been significantly better than Feldman.

    People find the strangest things to get upset about. Last year, if I had mentioned to anyone here that someone would be railing the Astros for turning Feldman into a prospect, they would have called me insane in the membrane.
     
  9. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Member

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    Please stop this... Brad Peacock is a desperation start because none of our starters made it out of the fifth inning in Arlington and, more importantly, an unexpected injury to Keuchel. Feldman *would* be better (I guess; frankly, I'd prefer Devenski - but they likely view him as too valuable) but it's silly to suggest the Astros should have somehow foreseen this circumstance on August 1.
     
  10. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    If the intent was to save money, it would have made more sense to trade Fister and move Feldman into his rotation spot.
     
  11. The Beard

    The Beard Member

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    If Feldman were still here, either him or Devo would have very likely been available tonight

    For the record, I did not wait until now to voice my displeasure, I thought and posted that it was a poor move for a team in contention to make back when we traded him. Maybe Luhnow didn't think we would stay in the running

    It's not silly to think a versatile veteran could be useful down the stretch of a long season
     
  12. The Beard

    The Beard Member

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    Fister had been our most consistent starter, that would have been absurd
     
  13. Major

    Major Member

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    In June, you wanted a team in contention to trade a versatile veteran so they could move a rookie into the rotation.

    On trade deadline day, you seemed concerned about the lack of roster spots for our young players:


     
  14. The Beard

    The Beard Member

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    What you are leaving out, is that I was advocating moving guys for a front end type of starter to help us win THIS year

    If that wasn't going to happen, and it didn't, I didn't want us to move a guy for a prospect who is 4-5 years away

    I'm not one that thinks no matter what, we have a 7 year window. We have loads of young talent and "should" be good for a long time, there are no guarantees though. I'm afraid that Luhnow will stay in "next year" mode too long

    And while I haven't been a "Crane is cheap" guy through the last few years, little moves like the Feldman one do cause me to at least pause a bit
     
  15. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Why would it have been absurd? Feldman is very similar to Fister as a starting pitcher and Fister makes around 4 million more than Feldman with both being free agents after this season.

    At the time of the trade, Feldman was redundant. Houston had 3 capable long men - Feldman, Devenski and Feliz. That is a luxury. This was not a salary dump.
     
  16. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    Fister is making $7M this year. Feldman is making $8M.
     
  17. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    With incentives, closer to 12.
     
  18. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    That is correct, but he has incentives

    I hit reply before the edit. I think the $11.4 was just from his 2015 salary.

    He gets $1M for every 25IP starting with 100, so he is now hit 100, 125, & 150. He'll hit 175 barring injury. Doubtful he hits 200.

    Assuming bonuses are paid when reached, that is $3M in bonuses (125/150/175) they could have avoided plus the prorated amount of $7M ($2.52M) for a total of $5.52M compared to Feldman's $2.71M remaining.
     
  19. Htown Stros

    Htown Stros Member

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    Why are people still arguing about this after we won the game we had "no chance" of winning with Peacock?
     
  20. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    What about Yuli's contract? If it was a cost cutting move, it was only so he could afford the 47 million he just shelled out.

    That said, Crane is cheap for trying to run such a low budget and having Fister being the free agent headliner. Trading guys like Lowrie and Feldman to go with guys that are cheaper, about the same level of short term expected value, have several years of club control, and have options left is just plain smart. Only so many people can be on 25-man roster...and I don't think Feldman was viewed as one of the top 8 relief choices.

    Peacock could remain in minors so it is not a Peacock vs Feldman argument.
     

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