Stand up for the Caribou! Dubya plans on drilling in one of the last major Caribou migration and calving areas left in Alaska. The maps on the following website http://maptricks.com/ have been deleted from government and some public websites in an effort to hide, cover up and mislead the public about drilling in Alaska. Please visit the site and learn about what the U.S. government is doing to ruin one of the last pristine areas in Alaska. Don't believe dubya. Question what he is proposing to do in Alaska. More info can be found at http://www.peer.org
Tough break rockHead getting that Bush guy as Pres ------------------ "Repression never did me any harm (I finally ceased to include "stop masturbating" as one of my guilt ridden New Year's resolutions, but that's a different topic)." Achebe - programmer by day, Mrs Palmers Husband by night
Post of the year. That is a subject I am passionate about. The environment is really the only reason I have a profound hatred of republican politicians. ------------------ Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon is the greatest player in the history of basketball. If you disagree, you are not a Rocket fan.
ZRB, don't forget the hypocritical stance that the government should stay out of your business... unless it involves religious ideology. But I guess the environmental status quo bs is what gets me most too. Ladies and gentleman, this is your moderate bipartisan president, shoving conservative policy down your throats w/ a smile. Where is the democratic backlash? Is the party that weak??? ------------------ (===)
I've been hoping that the Dems would start digging and trying to find scandal with Dubyuh's every move, like the repubs did with Clinton. Unfortunately, they haven't. I guess they can't find a way to sink down to that republican level. They actually seem to believe in working together to run the government, while the republicans just say that. I guess the majority of democrats aren't very good politicians. They're just good at running the government. ------------------ Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon is the greatest player in the history of basketball. If you disagree, you are not a Rocket fan. [This message has been edited by ZRB (edited March 27, 2001).]
rH, Thanks for posting that. As an Alaskan myself I personally think that this state is too good to ruin. Unfortunately, thanks to the good ol' dollar sign most people up here would disagree. Fact is, politics and money are most likely going to decide the fate of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Sad. ------------------ The Rockets never lose, they just get outscored occasionally
I tell a Republican friend of mine about this and he says : "Hey, I used to live in Alaska. The Caribou don't mind. They eat right around the oil derricks." Like the caribou have a choice. ------------------ "norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."
Hey Molotov, is there any truth to you guys (resdints of Alaska) getting mining rights to oil drilled from there? Or is it the Native Americans? Does anyone who lives in Alaska get compensated when people drill there?? rH ------------------ Homecourt will always be 'The Summit' to me!! Until we move downtown!! The Psychedelic Groove House of Rockets Basketball Love! Come and chat with us on game nights in CC.net chat! Chickety China, the Chinese Chicken. Have a drumstick and your brain starts clickin'
I'm not that crazy about Bush, but then again, I pretty much think all of our major party politicians are worthless. That being said, you guys are reaching on this one. A drilling or production rig takes up less than an acre. Hell, the tanks and buildings that go with it have a hard time filling up the rest of an acre. Alaska has over 365,000,000,000 acres to spare. I've gotten out from behind my computer and out of the city enough to know that wildlife doesn't give a rat's ass about drilling rigs. We could pepper the landscape with drilling rigs, and it still won't affect the caribou. You might argue that drilling rigs would aesthetically mar the pristine beauty of the Alaskan wilderness. At least then, you'd have a leg to stand on. ------------------ stop posting my damn signature
ever heard of roads Pole? I don't like the damn things to begin with, but it's a stretch to say that the caribou aren't going to be affected by this thing. Where are the democratic leaders??? Bipartisanship isn't supposed to mean the democrats giving in all of the time. ------------------ (===)
Roads, home developments for workers, pipeline, heavy equitpment depots and even parking lots. The point is where does it stop? At some point, the destruction of the environment has to stop and conservation has to begin. At one time, there were hundreds of thousands of buffalo that roamed the plains of America. Today, there are only a couple thousand thanks to the migration of humans into their habitats. At the time, people thought there would be no end to the buffalo. Wrong. Every day, species become extinct on this planet not because of natural selection but because of human encroachment. We have NO idea what the loss of plant and animal life might do to us. Just because the world feels vast to tiny creatures like us doesn't mean it has unlimited resources. We have a HUGE responsibility as the one's who began the pollution to stop it and reverse the trend. If we don't, our children and grandchildren will suffer for it. ------------------ AAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!
not to mention, environmental waste, oil spills and the trashing of this pristine wilderness.. I don't care if Alaska has millions of miles of it, we don't need to go and ruin ANY portion of it. Even if it is less than an acre. Haven't we done ENOUGH damage to our Mother Earth? rH
The SUN isn't going anywhere for the next billion years or so... why have we been so opposed to Solar and Wind power?? OH.... could it be cause the petroleum industry (read big bucks to greedy politicians) would not benefit? Probably. rH
How do you know ? Did you ask them ? Maybe the caribou have no choice ? Maybe it's an extra mile that they can't migrate. Who knows.... ------------------ "norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."
If you think that an oil derrick in Alaska would have a huge environmental impact, but solar or wind power would not, then you probably have not seen the massive areas covered by solar and wind power generation. ------------------ "We messed with the Bull, and we got the horns." -- Larry Brown "quote" from AirBullard.com
Yes gr8-1, I've discussed this with many caribou, and the overwhelming consensus among them is that the oil derricks are a good thing. The presence of man keeps natural predators at a distance, so the presence of oil derricks acts as a sort of safe haven along their migration route. When pressed they informed me that they had even altered some of their routes to get them closer to man made objects. I then asked them if that didn't pose a problem with the process of natural selection. At this point, they got somewhat agitated, and I wasn't able to get any more information out of them. ------------------ stop posting my damn signature
There have been numerous attempts made to proliferate solar and wind-driven power systems by environmentalists. None of these would do the damage to the environment the petrochemical industry and nuclear power industry already do, but the industries in power will have no part of that. In addition, humans ARE natural. However, what we create is NOT. Natural implies "existing in nature." Drilling rigs do not exist in nature. They are a wholly new invention of humans. In addition, they are not life sustaining inventions or even life producing. They destroy life whether it be plant, animal or human. No one doubts the illnesses caused by pollution. It is scientific fact. Yet, we continue to pollute. That is NOT natural. That is completely due to humans. I don't believe that we should live completely off the land. We have made advancements and that is a positive. However, at some point we have to decide that nature is valuable and necessary to sustain our lives and the lives of other species. Nature deserves our repsect because it is what sustains us. From a simply logical point of view, you do not destroy what helps you to survive. That is stupid. You nurture it so that it will continue sustaining you as long as necessary. The earth does not belong to us. We don't own it. We didn't acquire it in a hostile takeover from Mother Nature. We have a symbiotic relationship with it. We are as much a part of the land we stand on as it is a part of us. Just because God created us, if that is your belief, and our world doesn't mean we have the right to destroy it. ------------------ AAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!
What a bloody fantastic post Jeff. That is just brilliant. ------------------ Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon is the greatest player in the history of basketball. If you disagree, you are not a Rocket fan.
How is what we create not natural. We are a part of nature so our creations and actions should be considered a part as well. Where is the line drawn. Are the crude tools created by chimpanzees un-natural. What about a termite mound. What level of technology is required before something is considered un-natural. I do believe that god created man (probably by guiding evolution), and I do not believe that we have a right to destroy the world. God made man as stewards. That is why I said that alternative solutions should be found. I just do not like it when people complain without proposing an alternative. A couple of interesting facts: It costs more in electricity to make solar cells than the cells will produce over their lifetime. It costs more to buy a solar cell than you will save on power costs, on average, for an existing house. ------------------ "We messed with the Bull, and we got the horns." -- Larry Brown "quote" from AirBullard.com
If you think that an oil derrick in Alaska would have a huge environmental impact, but solar or wind power would not, then you probably have not seen the massive areas covered by solar and wind power generation. This is true. They do use up land. However, most of the land used by windmills are open desert or grassland areas. The windmills have a relatively minimal impact on the natural surroundings in comparison to an oil rig. In 20 or 30 years, the rig will be rendered useless because the oil will likely be gone. However, the wind, barring a serious weather change, will NOT go away. It will be a part of the landscape of that area forever. The best way to reduce the impact of our collecting energy is to minimize the need for building and consuming. Windmills are one of the solutions for that constant consuption. And, even if they aren't the ONLY answer, they are certainly an alternative. Implement them along with other sources of energy (see below) and you can drastically reduce our need (or desire) for fossil fuels. Isn't that a more intellegent path than simply ignoring the alternatives no matter how much cleaner, cheaper and better for the environment they may be? How is what we create not natural. We are a part of nature so our creations and actions should be considered a part as well. Where is the line drawn. Are the crude tools created by chimpanzees un-natural. What about a termite mound. What level of technology is required before something is considered un-natural. The difference between the tools made by monkeys, the mounds made by termites and the drilling rigs and skyscrapers made by humans is consumption. When a monkey makes a tool out of a rock or branch of a tree, that tool eventually becomes a part of the earth again. Same goes for the termite mounds. In the case of what we build, many plastics and polymers built into the structures last for millions of years before they are broken down. Additionally, drilling rigs are used to remove natural resources from the earth never to be replaced. Oil is changed and mixed with other elements to produce fuel. The result is a product that cannot be broken down by nature - a chemical byproduct. None of these are natural processes. Unlike most animals, we don't work within the confines of our environment. We use the environment for our own needs (some would say exploit) and plow through natural resources as if they aren't finite. There is no amount of reasoning that could lead us to conclude that this is a logical concept by which we should live our lives. It simply is not. Ultimately, it is cheaper, safer and more logical to live in balance with our surroundings or, at least, as close to balance as possible. A couple of interesting facts: It costs more in electricity to make solar cells than the cells will produce over their lifetime. It costs more to buy a solar cell than you will save on power costs, on average, for an existing house. Where did you get this information? It costs approximately $10,000 to $15,000 to out fit a home with enough solar panels to NEVER require the use of an electric company again. If we can assume you spend about $100 per month on electricity, it will take about 10 years to make up that cost. If you plan on living longer than 10 years, every year after that will make you money. And, of course, whoever takes the house from you becomes self-sufficient as well. The issue isn't really saving money so much as it is conservation, but you get both with solar panels. Also, many companies that manufactur solar panels actually use solar panels to power their plants. It's cheaper than paying for electricity. So, in effect, they are recycling their power and the electricity they use isn't consuming any more natural resources. The problem here is that you are making an argument based on need rather on want. We do not need the natural resources we are using. We do not require electricity or oil for survival. It is a luxury. I realize that we have it and it is a little late to turn back from it, however, to ignore the possible alternatives is irresponsible and illogical. ------------------ AAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!
