...until the tournament... They're not exactly in a powerhouse conference. They'll get a 5 or 6 seed and get whacked by an ACC or Big 12 team in the second round or the Sweet 16...
Undefeated & #2 RPI = #1 seed. Even if they lose a game down the stretch, they shouldn't fall further than a 2 seed.
They'll definitely be #3 or above seed. I wouldn't be surprised if they lost in the second round but I wouldn't be surprised if they made the elite 8 either. There aren't many really dominant teams this year. Mediocrity=Parity. Tourney should still be exciting though.
They will absolutely get a #1 seed if they go undefeated. Remember, they're an East Coast team. I'm actually going to the St. Joe's/Temple game next week. Temple's not very good this year, but who knows? Weird things happen in Big 5 games. Should be fun. Especially since it's at the Palestra.
If they lose to anyone but Dayton in the A-10 tourney, they'll drop. However, if they only lose to Dayton in the tourney, I believe they'll still be a #1 seed. I love NCAA basketball, parity and all. There's nothing more exciting than watching every tourney game and knowing that every team aside from the #16s has a shot to win.
Yeah I thought Dayton was a decent team. They might be a #2 or #3 but they're not going to drop lower than that with a loss. Don't get me wrong, I still love college basketball but it is pretty level because of mediocrity. I'm talking about the regular season though. The tournament is my favorite sports event of the year. With that there's always been the chance for upsets, superstar talent included or not.
If they don't lose another game, they'll be a #1 guaranteed. Their RPI is too high, even though that may go down as they play weaker teams. I completely agree. I'll watch a game on television, but only if it's two ranked teams, UT or, strangely enough, two small teams. I can't watch Baylor v. Nebraska, but I love sitting down for Butler v. Detroit like I'm doing right now. Amen. The first two days are my favorite two days of the year. Luckily I have an awesome job with a boss who agrees with me, but before that, I'd always get those two days off of work!
They are definetly a #1 seed if they win them all, Zaga could be a #2 if they win out as well. Further, these two mid-majors in my opinion have as good a shot for the Final 4 as anyone outside the best of the ACC, Pac-10 and Big East. In other words I think either is probably better team than OSU, MSU, Kentucky, Texas, Wisconsin, Kansas, Louiseville, etc. My one concerns abotu StJoes is lack of depth of quality big men, but I think it will take a really great team (like Stanford which has great guard play and a host of big guys) to really expose them because their guards are so much better than most teams. Further, Zaga has it all, as a complete team they may only be behind Stanford, Duke and UConn if the Huskies can pull togther. St.Joes did beat Zaga, but that was without Turiaf I believe in the first game, Zaga's other loss was a close one to Stanford in a Bay area turney I believe. These two teams do play cup cakes, but trust me, they are for real outstanding basketball teams.
Gonzaga is good. Not only do they have a great coach and the typical good shooters, but now they got athletes and some size. This year is so wide open. More than it's been in a long time. I really can't even make a prediction on the final 4 until I see the brackets.
So, I went to the St. Joe's/Temple game on Saturday, and I left with the exact same conclusion. I see St. Joe's lack of height as a real problem if they play a team that has several athletic big men. It might not even take a great team like Stanford -- I could see a team like Texas that sends in waves of quality big men giving the Hawks some problems. Having said that, this team is for real. Their guards -- all four of them -- are just really really good. When they run their four guard offense, they're just fine because the guards rebound so well. I can't tell you how many times I saw Jameer get boards in traffic. (But it was against Temple.) On D, the guards put so much pressure on the perimeter that it's hard to get the ball inside. Also, as we know, the 3 point shot is the great equalizer in college basketball. And St Joe's has 3 of the best I've seen (not including a couple guys off the bench that can hit the 3). What are the odds that all 3 will go cold in the same game? Plus, they're well coached and well run by Jameer and the other guards. I can't tell you how many wide open shots they got in their offense. I would not be surprised at all if their shooting carried them to the Final Four. The guards, by the way, are interchangable. I'd say Nelson only brought the ball up and seet up the offense about 55% of the time. When Tyrone Barley was in the game, Jameer pretty much played shooting guard.
wrath, I agree completely that a team like Texas (athletic, great D) would be a world of trouble for StJoes. Of course Texas may be headed for a 2 seed, they could be trouble for anyone. Guard play alone can often get you to the final 4, but sooner or later (Marquette last year) it will catch up to you. They will meet a team who can take away their 3 point looks and punish them inside.
I don't know about St. Joe's. It's not like they have 2 guards, they have FOUR. They play D. It sort of sucks that we can't see them play one real team now. It's not like Texas pounds the ball inside. Mouton's playing out of his mind right now (for him). I doubt he'll keep it up through the tourney. I will admit I'm surprised at how well Texas played last night. There aren't many quality big men in college anymore. Other than Okafor, name three. Frye, Williams, May, Turiaf (is he big)? It's a guard's game in college now more than ever. St. Joe's has a legitimate chance to make the final 4.
Tozai, I think you're arguing for the sake of arguing (unless I'm misreading your post). I said St Joe's was "for real"; Scar said he could see them going to the Final 4. We're not saying that there are 10-15 teams with quality big men that will beat them, just that a few teams with elite big men could give them problems. I totally agree they can go to the Final Four -- especially if they get a friendly draw.
Well you said Texas would be a "world of trouble" for them which I disagree with. Anyway, college bb has become such a crapshoot. I would never bet $ on the tourney anymore.
Actually, Desert Scar said that. Anyway, that's fair enough. We all seemed to agree that St. Joe's could go to the Final Four, so I didn't see what the big deal was.
Texas has enough talent to beat anyone. As we saw last year, probably any of the top 15 or 20 teams if they get on a roll can win it all. Texas is very dangerous, they could lose in the 2nd round or be a final 4 team. I think St.Joes is a fine team, but if they line up against probable 2 seeds Uconn or Kentucky they are big time underdogs, and versus Texas or Zaga they are 50/50 propositions as well. Further, if a talented but underachieving team used to good comp like Scuse, Arizona (bad RPI), Florida or GTech is a 8th or 9th seed in their bracket, that could be trouble in the 2nd round. Like I said guard play is critical to get to the final 4, but you usually need interior defense to advance further than that. Honestly I think Stanford and Zaga have the best overall teams (yes Turiaf is a big guy, a very athletic and skilled one on both sides of the ball and Zaga has other effective big guys to go along with their outside game), but even they are not locks for the final 4 depending on brackets.
Good points. I don't think Texas has the talent yet, but with coaching you never know. I don't know how St. Joe's could handle UConn or Kentucky. They'd run them off the court. What is going on with Arizona? Is it just depth problems?
