I was thinking about if they sign and trade DA for Smith C- Robinson PF - Duncan SF - ??? SG - Smith PG - Terry Porter? Daniels To me that is not that bad a line up esp considering the Zone rules. If they could get a decent Sf this could be the team trying to make one or two last runs on old legs. Rocket River I didn't wannt get caught up in that other thread ------------------
If they brought back AJ and Elliott, then indeed their heads would be positioned where you think they are. AJ has lost his quickness. Other old point guards can hang around because they can still get their shot off. With AD, Porter, and their pick Parker, AJ was definitely gone. Elliott? I'd be surprised to see him return. His knees really gave him problems in the WCF. The only true "loss" to speak of is DA, yet it is quite clear the Spurs did not want him back...otherwise they could've simply given him that 6th year fully guaranteed. ------------------ It's a cool site, this clutchcity.net
Nah, just AD, Porter, and Parker. DA didn't exactly do much creating on his own off the dribble. Most of his offense was jumpers and slashing, as well as some breaks. But breaking a player off? Nah, he's not that good. ...and they can certainly find a legit backup 5 for the min, like a Corie Blount. Like who? The luxury tax is clearly not a concern...WTF do you think they are going to do, spend $13 mil on minimum contract players? Oh yeah, $13 mil is going to those players...:rolleyes [quopte] running TP or AD @ the one is a BIG MISTAKE IMO. TP will break down if you want 25 minutes over 82 games. AD is a 2 guard in a pg's body.[/quote] AD is 6'4"/205....Cuttino Mobley is 6'4"/190. LOL...hilarious. Bullard is a poor man's Ferry then. BFD. I guess that's where their perimeter comes into play, no? Also, I guess I missed the part about the Spurs being excluded from signing free agents to minimum contracts. Fine, you don't like the Spurs, I don't expect you to, but at least post a decent take already. ------------------ It's a cool site, this clutchcity.net [This message has been edited by MrSpur (edited July 24, 2001).]
Damn Mr Spur, are you in a clouded daze believing that the Spurs management can do no wrong? If not, then tell me the last time you thought that they made a poor management decision? They didn't want Derek Anderson, WTF???? So if DA took their offer, what then, would they be like "oh crap, I can't believe he took our offer, sorry we were just ****** with ya. We don't want you." At least here man, people are less cloudy, not totally objective, but still less cloudy. People will criticize the Rocks management if they disagree. Porter did not play 48 at the point, so they did lose depth with AJ, unless Parker can step it up, which is a big "if". They also still lack depth in the front. Walker was okay and he's gone. Rose is a hustler, but not enough. And of course Anderson's loss is HUGE, unless they can get another scorer and slasher. They're inability to find that 3rd scorer in the playoffs killed them (that and losing their manhood while getting stomped by shaq and kobe). So don't say this "they didn't want DA" crap here man. They are going down the tube unless they some key aquasitions this summer. ------------------
I'll say what I want because it is the truth. Do you think really they wanted him back? I just pointed out that they apparently did not want DA back. They pursued Christie, then McKie before him. Who knows why? Perhaps they aren't enthused by his health. More likely, it's his attitude. Sure, the team has made mistakes this summer...caving in to DRob's demands for $9.5 mil this season because ownership was leerly of agitating the fan base as they try to sell out the new arena and extract seat fees from longtime season ticket holders. They'll be fine. [This message has been edited by MrSpur (edited July 24, 2001).]
Mr. Spur: You went to gt DA to try to get over LA. What changed that? Granted you still have the towers but other than that you don't have much. DA was a great fit with the Spurs last year. He was playing at a near all-star level. For the majority of the year (up until mid-february) the Spurs were the best in the NBA. But I guess you were happy to get swept by LA with DA out for a couple games and then playing very hurt when he did come back. Guess if you advance far enough in next years playoffs you can get swept again. I have nothing against SA, but I think the loss of DA is a step backwards. You had a good enough team (when DA was healthy) to compete with LA. Now you don't.
Mr. Spur, obviously we are watching 2 different temas. how bout a little bet on the season? i think they'll be worse (much worse, actually). i think they are a 2nd rate organization (which is why i can't support them). i think they have every reason to be an elite team, yet don't have the intelligence, character, integrity, an thus, reputation to do it. in fact, i think they'll FIND a way to continue to cut off their nose to spite their faces (we didn't want DA ). so how bout this? if the spurs have a better record this year than last, you win. if they have a worse record than last season, i win. AT STAKE: #1 reputation & #2 two tickets to the rockets v. spurs next year. it'll take a year to find the winner, but i'm a man of my word. i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are. if not, it's all documented here, and we'll all know if you reneged and you'll have egg on your face. what do you say?
Oh, I am so in on that. Put your money where your mouth is Mr. Spur. Sorry for butting in Shandon, can I be in on this too? Mr. "the Spurs had a good off season", Mr. "i am blinded by spurs shades",... Come on! Just make the bet...it's all in good fun. Or how about making it a playoffs thing...like I predict they will far worse in the playoffs than they did last year. ------------------
I'll get in on a bet, under the condition that the Spurs don't do something moronic and get nothing for Anderson in a sign and trade. You can put me down for the Spurs side, under that condition. ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
I'm in. You must indeed be looking at another team. SA paid Elliott's full salary in '99-'00 even though they contractually were only on the hook for half. AJ got a nice one year, $8 million "Thank You" contract last year, and DRob got his market value contract. The organization even helped out Mrs. Willie A and her kids after Willie skipped out on her. This 2nd rate crap is old and I notice that not too many others are spouting it in this forum. For whatever reason, they did not want DA back. If they wanted him back that badly, they would've given him the full 6 years/$50 mil and been done with it. Either they decided they wanted him at a reduced price and/or were content to see what they could find in a sign and trade for him. ------------------ It's a cool site, this clutchcity.net [This message has been edited by MrSpur (edited July 24, 2001).]
Lost/Replaced with: Comments Avery Johnson/Tony Parker: It’s impossible to gauge Parker, since he’s a rookie. However, Avery’s leadership was well chronicled. Dave & Tim are both silent leaders. DA was a vocal leader, but he is gone, too. Avery knew how to run the Spurs offense better than ANYONE. “The Little General” was a city favorite and will be missed. At this moment, it’s a net loss for the Spurs. Derek Anderson/??? (maybe Steve Smith, Bruce Bowen, or NOTHING): DA was everything that Sean Elliot (when healthy) was. He was the third (and arguably most important) leg of the team. He was the premier perimeter player. He was counted on to 1) stretch the defense by hitting the open 3, 2) slash to the bucket 3) create off the drive 4) guard the bigger guards (especially of the Western Conference). He shot 40% from 3 point range and was the second most athletic SG in the Western Conference (next to Sir Kobe). At this point, he may leave for nil. Can Steve Smith provide those things at age 32, with many seasons and questionable knees/back? Doubtful, though his veteran presence would be a plus. Bruce Bowen? A scrub his entire career, it would be unreasonable to expect him to suddenly become a 3 leg and reliable player for the Spurs. If they get NOTHING, they may struggle to reach the playoffs in a very, very, very competitive conference. Either way, it is a net loss for the Spurs. Sean Elliott/??? (maybe Stephen Jackson): Underutilized (or at least feeling that way), Sean said on KSAT 12 San Antonio that if he could not receive more playing time and respect from the organization, he would just as soon leave or retire. Likely, he will retire. Losing DA, plus not having Sean leaves the Spurs with very, very little athleticism from the 3 and 2 spots. Steven Jackson has been very inconsistent with New Jersey. He averaged 8 points per game, and could not hold down the starting spot on a very, very poor Nets team. He showed some athleticism, but also showed an extreme tendency to be erratic. His 3 point shooting was poor. IF, IF, IF they Spurs could sucker him into signing (wink, wink), he would be better served taking Sean Elliott’s spot than Derek Anderson’s. Little minutes, just don’t ***** up… X-Factor: Antonio Daniels is expected to play either the 1 or 2 this year, but has yet to show the consistency and strong “guard mentality” that Pop has desired from him. Still, he had a good playoff showing before the Spurs were swept. His defense against larger guards is a huge question mark. Summary: The Spurs are a team with many more question marks than exclamation points. The organizations’ handling of AJ, DA, and even David Robinson put one more black mark on a team perceived as “2nd rate” and “soft”. They missed out on Webber & Eddie Robinson – both of which could have helped their game immensely. The reasons may be cloudy, but the fact remains that the Spurs have not been able to attract premier free agents from other teams. Coupled with past player catastrophes (Mario Elie, Will Purdue, Dennis Rodman, Dominique Wilkins) the Spurs are now a team on a very thin surface. They have to hope that it’s plexiglas and not ice they are standing on. Keeping them afloat is Tim Duncan and David Robinson. Hopes that the new defensive rules with benefit the Spurs is a two-way street – seeing that teams can shadow Tim & Dave now, as well. They’ll need another SUPERB 3 point exhibition – year long, at that – to come close to the level they were at last year. However, when you consider the net losses they’ve had, and the “perceived” organizational problems, the chances are very, very slim.
Wait a second...wasn't it supposed to be DRob who made the Spurs "soft"? Man, they handled AJ so bad by giving him a one year, $8 million contract. Ouch. As for DRob, the man said he would take a "pay cut" to help improve the team, then demands his market value. The Spurs offered him a two year deal with a player option after the first at which time he would likely opt out and get his "pay cut" paid back to him. He refused and got his wish. Derek Anderson started talking about his contract demands during the playoffs. He wanted 25 shots a game and the MAX. Damn, the Spurs are so second rate because they didn't think he was worth that. They tried with Webber, but ownership forced them to drop out. As for ERob, he appears to have been a casualty of the Spurs' pursuit of Webber and Christie/McKie. How many teams attract "premier" free agents all the time? Anyways, when was the last time the Spurs had any semblance of cap flexibility? The Spurs have been hamstrung in their efforts in free agency before because of (in no particular order): no cap space, small market, old cap rules that favored larger revenue teams, limited team revenues thanks to limited suites in Dome and Hemisfair, uncertain franchise future in SA, uncertain Duncan future in SA, loss of players due to injury that limited tradeable value (Cummings, Willie Anderson, Elliott, Person, etc...), etc... You judgement without addressing any of those issues is quite pedestrian. ------------------ It's a cool site, this clutchcity.net
What about Michael Finley, Desmond Mason, and Larry Hughes? I think those three are more athletic than Derek. I guess it can be debated. ------------------ "I look kind of dumpy. Look at my butt. And what kind of shoes do they have me wearing? At least they got the chinstrap beard right." -Kevin Garnett on the KG bobblehead dolls during KG bobblehead doll night at the Target Center
As for AJ, the word is that he is gone because he "rubbed Duncan the wrong way". How many point guards do you think the Spurs are supposed to have? AJ clearly has lost a step and the Spurs have shown their appreciation for his contribution to the franchise. If someone is willing to give AJ the MCX at this stage in his career, good...I'm just glad it's not the Spurs. As for DA...he definitely had a blistering 4 game series versus Minnesota in the playoffs, now didn't he? You claim that AD is not a point, well then why don't you mention him at the 2 then? Elliott's career is over if those knee troubles continue. The Spurs have certainly shown respect to him through his recovery from the kidney transplant and were by no means at all pushing him to return. They even picked up the full tab on the '99-'00 season when a clause in his contract clearly gave the Spurs the option to pay him half if he was unable to perform due to his illness. WTF? The Spurs went with Elie as the starting 2 for the entire '99-'00 season even though his game was deteriorating rapidly. Elie left HTown on bad terms as well. Rodman??? LOL Give me a break. Perdue was offered more money over a longer term by SA and he left for a short deal with Chicago, but with the second year non- guaranteed. I would bet that Perdue would prefer to be back in SA now. Dominique? He performed well in SA, but I'm not sure he fit in well being a role player as opposed to the star...perhaps it was his refusal to ever pass the rock that did him in with the Spurs. Gee, a team decides not to bring an aging veteran back, that must make them an awful franchise... ------------------ It's a cool site, this clutchcity.net
DA's defense was subpar. Sure, he could put up 20 points...and so would the opposing 2 man. The killer with DA is his low FG%. Yes, he makes up for that with his high FT%, but still, that means fewer touches for Duncan and a less efficient offense overall. His 3 point shooting % was nice, but overall his shot selection was rather poor. He has a Kobe attitude, but non-Kobe talent. The problem is, he apparently doesn't realize it. ------------------ It's a cool site, this clutchcity.net
I'm getting tired of this jibba jabba on both sides. Where's Mr. T when you need him? So, Mr. Spur, Cat, Shandon, is the bet official? Is it 58 games over/under or Western Conference Finals over/under or what? What are the terms? Oh, and I'm not buying courtside seats here. I went to Rocks vs. Spurs last year and got the 10 dollar tickets. You can move up, so deal with it. But that's all I'm buying, so it'd be $20 total, and I'm not buying 4 tickets...so I'm only game if we have even sides, or 2 tickets per person..whatever. So is anyone else in. I'm on a roll after this "we don't need a pf/c bet"; ask Shandon about it ? ------------------
I'll buy two cheaper tickets (10-20 each), but that's it. As far as I understand, the bet was over/under the 58 game win total... ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
The Terms: first, you need to pair yourself against someone. i'm paired off with Mr. Spur. if he sees fit to pair off with other people, so be it. BUT I WANT MY TWO SEATS !! second, yes, it is the over/under 58. he's over, i'm under. (hey, that doesn't sound right ) third, let's try to make the seats in the $15-20 each. if you want to move up or down, it's on you. and if both of you can agree on a set price range, that's your business. mr. spur, i'd be open to two tickets in the $15-40 a piece range. where do you stand? fourth, this is based on the regular season record only. playoffs don't count! my suggestion would be verse vs. Mr. Spur & Kim vs. The Cat. OK?
Sounds good verse. I'm in. ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
i've gotta go to class now guys... but to this point i have myself and The Cat being in. Mr. Spur and Kim, i know you said you were "in" earlier, but i'd like to get one more confirmation after i laid out the terms in my earlier post. sorry for the redundancy. also, Mr. Spur, the news you brought about tim & avery is shocking to me. seriously. i'll address tht later on tonight....
