OK, Saturday night me and one of my girlfriend's friends got into a very heated discussion that went from religion to race. She asked me if I knew the basis of the religion of Islam. I told her the little bit that I know about Muhammed, Allah, and the Koran but it was not much and maybe she should look for more information if she is interested in what that religion is like. My girlfriend then made the comment "Isn't that the religion that hates white people?" I quickly told her that she was talking about the Nation of Islam and that although many people in that religion feel that way all of them do not. This is where it turned into a racial discussion. Then her friend spouts out "I really don't like any of the black leaders that there are today?" She then said "I don't like Malcolm X and I respect Martin Luther King Jr. even though he cheated on his wife." She then went on and said "Why is it OK to have black leaders but white people can't have leaders themselves?". I told her there are white leaders they either don't get the press the black leaders do or they are with a negative organization (KKK). She then went into this big rant about how she and all white people are and have been mistreated by blacks for years and years. I told her that every race gets mistreated by every race and black people don't just pick out white people and f*ck them over. Then she starts telling me how rude all these black women have been to her and then she makes the stereotypical assumption that all black women treat white women this way. She also said that most black people talk, act, dress, etc. the same way. She then went on and said that white people generally make their decisions against black people because of experiences they have been through. Then when I say the same thing about black people she says "Give me a f*cking break!" Then I tried to show her that she was wrong by making a stereotype of white women based on my experiences and she told me that I was wrong. It just got really ugly...trust me. Anyway, do you all have any other good arguments I could use against her sterotypes to show her how very wrong they are.
It is generally a waste of time and energy to argue (or be logical) with narrow minded folks such as your girlfriend's friend.
The whole race argument is kinda boring and not really worth talking about. Sounded pretty ignorant. But, the history of Islam is something I always wonder about. The way I've heard it told is that Muhammed had his vision, and then went around with his men forcing other tribes to believe it by any means neccessary. I don't know if that is excactly right but maybe we could get a good history scholar to fill us in (MacBeth, I'm looking in your direction).
I think that any attempt to have a rational conversation on race will degenerate into name-calling or worse. People just have these inflexible viewpoints about the issue and just spout off soundbites rather than actually listening to the other side. I avoid this topic more so than religion or even the homosexual marriage issue.
She's ignorant. Although I'm sure she's had some bad experiences with some black people, she can't make the same mistake and declare that all black people are like that.
That was my whole argument Mr. Clutch. I told her that she can't say that all or even most black people are like that because she doesn't know or has ever met 1% of the black population in the USA let alone 51% of them so her all or most argument doesn't hold water.
Yeah I think most conversations about race are pretty pointless. I mean its good to have a cultural background and all, but when it comes down to it we're all human.
Yeah...ask her if she even read Malcolm X's autobiography in the first place. If she didn't then act very condescending towards her to piss her off and tell her to get out of the hole that she calls her life and read a book before she forms an opinion. Then tell her to go out and meet some people before she decides how everyone is and actually try to have a good attitude about it. I mean I don't really know what to say. The last time I got in a discussion like that I felt like grabbing the person and shaking them really hard.
The Irony of Islam is that I believe is has gone backwards in time instead of forward. I liken the time period now to the Protestant Reformation in which you had extreme groups with a puritannical view of God and society. Wahabbism is very puritannical in nature as it believes in a wrathful God and a very literal interpretation of the religion. Muhammad is acknowledged as a Messenger of God by muslims and believed that he delivered the same message of Abraham, Moses and Jesus. The Kabaa, in Saudi Arabia is the focus point of Islam and it is believed to have been created by Abraham. Muhammad basically said that man had manipulated the message of the other Prophets like Moses and Jesus, therefore a seal was placed on the Koran. So essentially the Koran today is unchanged from that of 700 AD. Muhammad's teachings stressed learning and study, as it was stated that the miracle of Muhammad was the Koran which is a rythmic poetry in Arabic. The early muslims were one of the first to ever grant inheritance rights to women and even made marriage based on the consent of the woman. Their governments were to be headed by an elected leader (by a council) called a Caliph or successor and no one was to recieve any leadership based on bloodline. They were pioneers in mathematics and science as many words today such as Algebra (AL-GIBRA) are arabic. Ironically, the Muslim/Arab world is one of the most illiterate today. Their human rights records are deplorable and democracy is almost non-existant. It is rampant with Monarchs and Military Dictators, both of which means that the individual owes little to the people and its reflected in the lack of a trickle down effect. As a muslim it is difficult for me to reflect to others the difference between religion and culture. The 'burkha' for example (the black robe over women with the eye holes) was created by the Ottoman empire over 500 years after the beginnings of Islam. This combined bedoin nomadic culture with that of the Islamic faith. I truly think freedom of speech and education will help to destroy this plague of extremism and poverty, but it takes time. As for arguments, you can't argue against the 'because' and 'everyone I know' logic. The African-American community though is socially, economically and literacy wise, one of the weakest populations in this nation and will be the brunt of stereotypes until that changes. The 'muslims' hate white people comment is foolhardy at best, because Eastern Europe is filled with 'white' muslims from countryies like Bulgaria, Yugoslavia and Russia. Islam is the second largest religion in the world and the perception that Arabs are the muslims, and muslims are Arabs is simple Ignorance. A strong number of Arabs are Christian and the Arab Muslim population makes up less than 10% of the total muslim faith. So if you're friend's friend is making comments about other people, maybe she should pick up a book sometime and read some facts.
pgabriel my friend, I've been waiting on your reply. Do you think I was wrong for even bothering to reply to her idiotic statements. I mean, I'm black and to hear somebody say we talk, act, dress, and do everything the exact, same way is just absurd and it gets me angry. What did I do wrong? Should I have just blown her off?
I've had bad experiences with black people. Oh, and whites. You know, Mexicans too. Peurto Ricans, other latin people, euros, etc. You know, I should hate humanity in general, but I don't. You can't go through life without having run ins with stupid people, they exist everywhere, are in every nation, and part of every race.
LP, White people are stupid...don't bother. Man, I had forgotten about that wonderful Smirnoff thread. Thanks, pg. Khan, How much do you think the regression has to do with colonialization and the like? What factors do you see?
Man, I had forgotten about you. People, not everyone is like Rimbaud, don't take his "white people are stupid" comment and think everyone of his race shares the same viewpoint. Many colonized areas have done well, i.e. India.
Are you black rimbaud? It really doesn't matter if you are because the white people are stupid line is just idiotic itself. There are bad people who do the same thing as my girlfriend's friend in every race NOT JUST WHITES.
True. As a certified J.A.C (Just Another Cracker) with some other subtle hints of flava mixed in I can confirm that: White people are indeed quite stupid. As are Black people, and Asians, and Indians (Asian and American), and Hispanics, and Eskimos, and Middle Easterns, and Europeans, and Africans (both Super-Saharan and Sub-Saharan), and Antarticans (if there is such a thing...) People are STUPID... and you are people and so am I. We are all really f**king stupid. Period. Carry on.
"And it says in this book here he made us in his image So if we're dumb, God's dumb And maybe even a little ugly on the side." - Zappa rimbaud's white, by the way.
