1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Something that is really pissing me off

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by thacabbage, Nov 19, 2005.

Tags:
  1. thacabbage

    thacabbage Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    6,993
    Likes Received:
    145
    Impatience on the post entry. It seems like the guards will wait to see if Yao has position for one or two seconds, and if it's not there, they go away. If they would just wait a little longer, they could get it to him. They also rarely throw the re-entry pass after he passes out. He is almost automatic in those situations. There is this one setup where, it occurs SO DAMN MUCH that I am starting to believe that it is actually a play they run. The point guard brings it down and Yao fights for position, but without even looking into Yao, the point guard dribbles back to the right block and Yao follows out to set a pick. Very frustrating. The guy wastes so much energy fighting for position and they just go away from the post so that it all goes to naught.

    Oh, and regarding Derek Anderson. I honestly don't think I have seen him dump it into Yao once all season. He'll look into Yao, pump fake, and drive it in to take an awkward off balance jumper.

    These things need to be adressed because not only is it bad offense, but it's leading to Yao's fatigue issues.
     
  2. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,283
    When can we trade that guy again? I almost feel like I have seen enough already...
     
  3. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2000
    Messages:
    27,811
    Likes Received:
    22,824
    He finally made one decent play in the 4th Q last nite by making a steal on the perimeter and then heading in transition with the ball up the left side of the court. However inexplicably, instead of taking the ball as deep into the transition D as he could, he then decided to pass the ball backwards to Wesley, who was actually behind him. And not only did he attempt this illogical pass (fundamental bball is to advance the ball upcourt), but he threw it too far behind Wesley - who had to slow down and reach back just to make the catch. I don't believe we even got anything out of that possession :rolleyes:

    I was so happy DA had finally contributed something positive in that game and then he even found a way to screw that up w/ this atrocious mockery of fastbreak bball.

    As far as ThaCabbage's point, I got no idea what the coaching staff or guards are thinking with making Yao fight for position and then swinging the rock somewhere other than straigh into his palms. Sometimes I think Yao and the team would function better offensively if we just used him like we did Cato - let him just concentrate on rebounding, while getting all his points off putbacks or setups from other players. He'd probably get a lot fewer fouls and turnovers that way, not to mention less fatigue.
     
  4. beyao

    beyao Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2002
    Messages:
    728
    Likes Received:
    1
    OVERCOACHED & UNDERTAUGHT!!!!
     
  5. thacabbage

    thacabbage Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    6,993
    Likes Received:
    145
    LOL. That is funny because when that steal occurred I was literally in shock that he actually contributed something positive to the team. I loved the signing (he was one of my favorite players in the league with Cleveland) but this guy is absolutely KILLING us out there. It's not that he's not making shots, it's that he is bogging down the entire offense with his lack of passing.

    It is inexcusable how much energy they make him waste. If he's need the direct target of the play, he needs to be resting under the hoop. I love Van Gundy, but his use of Yao is absolutely baffling. You know his two biggest weaknesses are fatigue and foul trouble, yet you insist on having him set meaningless picks on the perimeter or fight for position down low without getting the ball. I just don't get it.
     
  6. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2000
    Messages:
    27,811
    Likes Received:
    22,824
    The only explanation of this I can think of is that JVG takes a longterm view of Yao's progression towards becoming a championship level player and expects him to be able to come out on the perimeter to meet opposing PG's or set picks - all part of growing into a do-it-all infatiguable 7'6" KG. In other words, he is just trying to force Yao to improve on his game's weaknesses before they come centerstage and exposed/exploited in a Conference Finals series. Either that or JVG is just nuts...
     
  7. Hakeem06

    Hakeem06 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,855
    Likes Received:
    3
    offensively, we think way too much. and that is overcoaching. when our offense was at it's best last season, guys where just playing basketball, we would get easy buckets in transition and have good ball movement and player movement for good looks at the hoop. none of that is happening this year. it's until about 12 seconds are so in shot clock before we even get our first pass most of the time. we have awful ball movement and player movement on offense. teams that move the ball and have guys running off of screens are successful on offense, and we don't do that. until we start doing that, we aren't going to get better regardless of how well tracy and yao play.
     
  8. mag

    mag Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2002
    Messages:
    1,132
    Likes Received:
    11
    JVG is overcoaching the team. I noticed at yesterday game, the LH for the first time hesitated in a 3 point shoot. Before he would not hesitate and just shoot whenever he was open. Now JVG is starting to affect his natural play.
     
  9. daoshi

    daoshi Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2002
    Messages:
    3,021
    Likes Received:
    75
    Most of the players have three options with the ball, shooting, driving, and passing. But with our back court, there are only two options left since the opponents know we couldn't shoot. Taking away half of the drive since most of our guards couldn't finish the play, all the defenders need is to guard the passing, which have been exactly what the other teams have been doing to us. It's just too hard to feed Yao the ball at the right moment, with the defenders concentrating on denying the passing.

    Until our guards can be a threat with the ball, be it making the outside shot, or penetrating to the hole, you won't see Yao get the ball at the ideal position, consistently. Last night, Wesley was able to get Yao the ball rather easily, why? because he made his shot, and the defender had to honor his shooting ability. If he could distribute the ball a little better when penetrating, then he could be our fulltime PG this season.
     
  10. thacabbage

    thacabbage Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    6,993
    Likes Received:
    145
    Yea, I considered that too. JVG is the kind of guy who would say "I don't care if you can't do it, get better and do it." This isn't a perfect world though and you have to pick your battles. Yao is what he is. You're gaining nothing having him set meaningless picks which our guards do absolutely nothing with. McGrady is the only player Yao should ever be setting a pick for (speaking of which, where the hell has the Yao/Mac pick n roll been??). It's paradoxical because the first thing JVG did when he came was set two new rules to deal with Yao's fatigue: he never inbounds the ball and he never lines up at the free throw line. Then why the hell do we have him wasting energy in other situations? :confused:

    Re: Anderson, he's been so, so pitiful it's amazing. For those of you who didn't watch him in his younger days, this was a legitimate 2nd tier shooting guard. When the Spurs got him, it wasn't meant as a joke that they felt they could then match up with Kobe. He was probably the best non All-Star shooting guard in the league. I didn't get to see him in Portland so I didn't realize he had fallen off this much. He is absolutely PITIFUL.

    It's different with Alston. He hasn't played well but I never even realize he's on the court. He just doesn't do anything. He brings it up and passes it. DA on the other hand adversely affects us.

    I'm not as pessimistic about the year as some of you are because face it, without McGrady, this team shouldn't be winning at all. This is no surprise. It has been a shock though as to just how bad the veterans have been. They need some sort of a jump start and that begins with playing Stromile Swift starter's minutes. No more of this platoon bullsh*t. You paid the guy $30 million, now let's see what he can do.
     
  11. DVauthrin

    DVauthrin Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 1999
    Messages:
    9,695
    Likes Received:
    8,110
    I wouldn't stop at Swift, I think Head has every right to start at this point. I've seen enough to know he has confidence in his abilities and can play at the NBA level. At the very least, he should be the 1st guard off the bench if he isn't starting and getting 20-25 minutes a night. JVG's stubborn insistence on playing DA in the second half last night was mindboggling. Luther Head has outplayed him, and should have had those minutes.
     
  12. alaskansnowman

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 1999
    Messages:
    1,961
    Likes Received:
    9
    I've seen about only 3 or 4 Rockets games, and even I've noticed how reluctant DA has been in passing it down low to Yao. I hope something clicks within him and he starts hitting his shots b/c he has been downright pathetic. It's not a surprise we are struggling - our starting pg and sg have been pitiful.
     
  13. gotoloveit2

    gotoloveit2 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    By the way, much of these have been discussed SEASONs ago-----by so called YOFs. :p
     
  14. GATER

    GATER Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2000
    Messages:
    8,325
    Likes Received:
    78
    I don't want to sound like a DAOF but....

    In VG's offense, the plays are initiated by the SF and PG. Anderson is on the weakside in the corner. The same spot on the floor where Mobley was when everyone was complaining about him freezing out Yao. The SG just does not have that much opportunity. Further, with Yao's foul trouble and DA's diminishing minutes, they are not on the floor together that often.

    I don't have the time or desire to get into this too deeply, but I looked at the entire Kings' game. McGrady led the Yao post passes with 4 and DA had 3. I then quickly started on the Pistons game (where Bowen started at SF) and Anderson had 2 entry passes alone in Q2. I've got a strong suspicion that the "DA is freezing out Yao" thing could be selective perception. That said, DA is a bad post entry passer.

    But there is someting else we need to factor in to the equation. An effective post entry pass to Yao has to be almost perfect. Yao does not have particularly good hands, lacks horizontal mobility and 75% of the time must "gather" himself for a shot near the basket. And since the NBA is now empasizing athleticism, Yao is now trying to "seal" defenders who are much quicker than he is. When all of this combines with a poor entry passing team...DA in particular and I'm not sold on Alston's ability at post entry...it can get pretty ugly in the low post.

    On an unrelated note...I find it pretty humorous that 80% of this board mocks Bill Walton until he says something they generically agree with. How much "teaching" do players like Howard, Wesley, DA and Barry need?

    Further, it's a subjective argument whether Ewing or Ward are good at their jobs. But there should be no argument that the responsibility for "teaching" Head and Yao belongs to them. Teaching is the realm of assistant coaches. And you will recall that in almost the same breath, Walton praised Patrick Ewing and said what a great opportunity it was for Yao to work with him.

    I love listening to Bill Walton. But I never lose sight of the fact that he's there to entertain as well as enlighten. Sort of Charles Barkley with 30 more BBall IQ points.
     
    #14 GATER, Nov 20, 2005
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2005
  15. real_egal

    real_egal Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2003
    Messages:
    4,430
    Likes Received:
    247
    I was scratching my head and speechless, when I saw that play:) But the good thing was, that Wesley was really good that night, not only he caught the ball, and somehow awkwardly got to the basket and drew the foul, althought he was only 1-2 on that trip. That being said, right now DA is the only person doesn't contribute. We can't afford that for too long. Maybe JVG should bring him from the bench.

    BTW, speaking of re-post, actually they did couple of time in that game, which was quite successful. I saw Barry and Wesley did that, but no Anderson.
     
  16. real_egal

    real_egal Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2003
    Messages:
    4,430
    Likes Received:
    247
    DA was really good, that's why I was quite excited to see him coming, coz I thought he fits in our system, and he can complement TMac and Yao quite well. Although I haven't seen him play for a while, I was very surprised to see him that slow, bad on defense, and horrible in shooting. Everything is so awkward for him now. I don't get it, maybe there is some sort of injury, or he just needs more time to adjust? When we blame JVG, maybe we are just too eager to see the results. In retrospect, if JVG didn't hang on to Wesley, we wouldn't have seen the old Wesley in Piston's game. If he's coming back for sure, not just a flash to the old days, I have to give super pro to JVG for sticking with his man. Maybe DA will give us a nice surprise in next game as well? You never know, one is allowed to dream, right? My ultimate dream is to see the Rockets just getting better and better, forming a new dynasty. Probably not this year though:D
     
  17. Yodels

    Yodels Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2002
    Messages:
    974
    Likes Received:
    26
    It's coaching...but I believe in JVG.
    RudyT used to drill the team for hours feeding the ball to Hakeem. The results speak for themselves.

    I don't know if people remember, but there was a 5-8 game stretch when RudyT was coaching Yao when the ball would go to Yao consistently as much as it did to Hakeem for a quarter or 2.

    The team needs to understand, they will fail. There will be turnovers. But anything worth doing is worth doing badly at first. It will get better. As JVG says, it's the process.
     
  18. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    38,374
    Likes Received:
    29,968
    Did anyone watch the Detroit game halftime show on CCTV5? They put together an analysis on how the guards kept missing opportunities to pass to Yao when he got great position in the post.

    The entry passer either waited too long and help defense came over to cover the post, or waited too short and didn't look to pass when Yao needed more time to post. A lot of times, the guard ended up passing or dribbling back to the top and Yao had to come out to set a pick for him.

    Also, I think JVG being a defensive coach does have a negative effect on our offense. It is not that he has no offensive knowledge. And the energy issue has some effect. But there is also the priority in practice. If you spend a lot of time perfecting your defensive rotation and all that comes with it, you won't have enough time to get repetition for your offensive sets. Pro basketball schedule has little time left for teams to practice between games. And for the slow learners, having to learn a complicated defensive system AND a new offense might mean too much, at least for the short run.
     

Share This Page