did anyone else notice the scary thing I noticed this morning in the chronicle write-up on miller, oswalt and redding? all three of them get a new contract after this season. . . that could be bad. ------------------ houston rockets = 2 utah jazz = 0
I don't think any of them are free agents though, just arbitration eligible ------------------ Anyone need a C/C++/Win32/HTML/PHP/SQL/Java/Perl/x86 coder?
None of them have enough service to be arbitration eligible. Baseball has a fairly standard set of contracts for players until they hit their 4th (or later) year of service. They are in good shape with their contracts, with the exception of Wagner and Alou, for a long time. And Wagner isn't that much of a big deal. Even with all of the time he has put in, he cannot yet become a free agent. ------------------
Thats what I love about baseball. Retaining your young talent is pretty easy for the first few years. ------------------ T-Pooh and BahDakota went up the hill, to make a bet on a Forward. When it all came down, they were nowhere to be found. Now they should be drawn and quartered.
err...yeah. Then Drayton forces us to trade them all away because he won't pay them. Sorry guys, I'm keeping my excitement towards the Astros in check. I hate to be so pessimistic, but hell, it happens all the time: 'Stros make some noise, then won't pay anyone to stick around. ------------------ "I have no regrets except that I wasn't up to keep Randy from getting on that plane." --Ozzy Osbourne on guitarist Randy Rhodes
well, this is mostly good news to hear. so what did that mean in the chronicle when it said that each of the three were signed through 2001? is it solely the club's option whether to have them back next year? ------------------ houston rockets = 2 utah jazz = 0
They have to be re-signed, but they get relatively tiny contracts. They aren't free agents, so if they don't sign, I believe they just don't get to pitch anywhere. On the Astros side, they have to give them a "fair" deal or they'll hate the Astros and never consider staying long-term. Sorry guys, I'm keeping my excitement towards the Astros in check. I hate to be so pessimistic, but hell, it happens all the time: 'Stros make some noise, then won't pay anyone to stick around. Maybe so, but we get the young guys for at least 3-4 years before they can bolt. On the Astros part, though, there's good reason to be wary. Name one long-term mega-deal that has worked for the Astros? Drabek, Swindell both sucked. Biggio got hurt after signing his. Hidalgo sucks right now (on a good note, he got his first RBI in *three weeks* today). Bagwell sucked (relative to his usual standards) up until about 2 weeks ago. Lima sucked. Basically, every big signing hasn't produced as well as expected, so the Astros probably have developed a wariness towards the big, long-term deals. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
Dont blame the contracts, blame the managment for stupidity. 1. Bagwell was a no brainer 2. So was Biggio and look at what hes doing now 3. Hidalgo is still young, and just waiting to come out of his slump 4. Drabek didnt suck. He just wasnt spectacular on some bad Houston teams. Stupidity was Signing Lima to that contract instead of channeling it into a Hampy deal (I know he may not of wanted to stay, but a big enough deal would of made him think real hard). Every one knew that Homron field was going to be a hitters park. Everyone knew Hampy was a ground ball pitcher and Lima a fly ball pitcher. Who should of stayed. Look at what Everett did last year. Think the Stros should of kept him, or do you still think they love A. Everret still? Look at Bobby Abreu. Look at L. Gonzalez. Daryl Kile outside of Coors field has been solid. This team gave up Freddy Garcia for 1/2 a season of Randy Johnson. Let Ricky Guitty go cause they thought another short stop could cut it, you remember him right? At the clip of what .210. Dont forget they traded away Curt Shilling. I still wish Mitch Meulusky was hitting for the Stros when I watch Brad Ausmus hit. He could be a 30 homer guy, just couldnt quite call a game yet, and had an altercation. But dude was young. He could of learned. Dont blame the big contracts. Just the stupid people calling who gets them, and who doesnt. ack ack Hunsicker ack ack McLane. ------------------ "I have amazing, powers of observation"...Pink
Look at Bobby Abreu. Look at our outfield. Look at L. Gonzalez. If you can name one person that expected Gonzalez to become the player he is today, I'll be amazed. ONE. And if we had to keep Gonzales for 5 years to get one great year and one good year (last year), is it worth it? Daryl Kile outside of Coors field has been solid. At the time, he was mentally worse than Lima. He had one good season and was a total headcase otherwise. That next season, he sucked home & away, just like Lima, because he couldn't adjust to the park (again, just like Lima). This team gave up Freddy Garcia for 1/2 a season of Randy Johnson. And it was the most exciting 2 months of baseball Houston has ever had. You don't get talent without giving up talent. Houston took a chance. He did his job for us. Let Ricky Guitty go cause they thought another short stop could cut it, you remember him right? Lugo is nearly as good offensively, and superior defensively. Dont forget they traded away Curt Shilling. And don't forget they stole Bagwell. That's the nature of trades. No team wins in every trade. I still wish Mitch Meulusky was hitting for the Stros when I watch Brad Ausmus hit. You mean the Mitch Meluskey that's out for the season, will likely never catch again due to shoulder problems, and whose veteran teammates hated him? Every story has two sides. If we let Lima AND Hampton go after losing Kile & Johnson, the fans would have gone nuts. (And Hampton was not going to re-sign no matter what) Besides, look how Hampton is doing this year? What about the Hampton deal, where we got Dotel (and Cedeno, who helped get us Ausmus & Cruz)? Or the Alou deal where none of the 3 stud prospects ever made the majors? Teams make good and bad trades. When dealing with prospects, some will and some won't pan out. Our management is no better or worse than any other team and has made both winners and losers. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
shanna!...telling it like it is. ------------------ Rarely is the question asked: Guns kill squirrels than REDRUM to fools across the nation?
"Hidalgo: he has one good year and they break the bank. Before that, he'd been decent. Doh." Doh? No way! The kid is 24 years old, is a legitimate 5 tool player, and he isn't doing THAT bad this season. He is going to end up with 30 homers and 100 RBI's, again. And it aint like he is hitting 250, he is at .273 right now. they aren’t paying him THAT much in terms of MLB money. He signed a 4 year 32 million dollar contract. For the next 4 years we have he and Berkman, at a relatively low cost to production ratio. Signing a guy like Richard at that price tag is a no brainer. I‘d love to see us land a true CF (more so than signing Alou) so we could move Rich and Lance to the corners where they belong. The Astros have made some bad choices in signings (in hindsight of course) Richard is not one of them though. It seems as though Drayton is more concerned about IMAGE then winning sometimes. It appears as if he (re)signs people that he thinks the fans *like* see Bags, Biggio, Lima, Drabek, Swindell. I love Bags, but I think we would be a better team with his money going to sign Hampton and having Ward play 1st, then we are right now. Hampton, Reynolds, Miller Oswalt, Redding….that is a nasty staff. And somehow I think a lineup of Biggio, Lugo, Berkman, Alou, Ward, Hidalgo, Vinny, catcher, pitcher, wouldn’t have a hard time scoring runs. That being said I am very glad Bags is still here, I just wish we had an owner that was willing to spend a little more cash towards WINNING as opposed to image. ------------------ Now this shirt is chafing me
The Astros have made bad decisions regarding free agency. You give huge contracts to players who are: 1. young, 2. have at least and 2-3 years of success. True, but that's what they did with Lima and Hidalgo (Hidalgo had been good and improved every year he's been in the majors). Hampton really only had one good full-year (although he did show good half-seasons before that), as did Kile -- but those two are the ones that got away. RJ wasn't young, yet that would have been a good signing too if we could have pulled it off. Unfortunately, the Astros also can't choose when the players come up for Free Agency. It would have been nice to have another year to test Hidalgo and Lima, but that wasn't really a choice -- someone else would have paid them more. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
Shanna: Come on, the Lima signing was stupid for a different reason entirely. And yes, I did call that one when it happened . Did nobody in the Astros organization notice that Lima's ERA was dramatically better in the Astrodome and that a flyball pitcher might not fare well at Enron? I find it hard to believe that Gerry Hunsicker (a pretty smart GM) didn't notice this. The Lima signing was idiocy. Hidalgo... well, it wasn't a huge mistake. And he did hit 42 homers. And his contract isn't that large. So maybe you have a point there. Hampton only had one great year when he was traded... but he wasn't up for free agency yet. If Houston had waited to sign him... they could have been there for his 2nd. Granted, if he still left they wouldn't have received anything in return.... and Dotel is working out pretty well. BTW: I noticed someone here criticized the Randy Johnson trade: don't lament smart bets that just don't work out. That trade made the Astros the best club in major league baseball. Hunsicker couldn't be expected to predict Biggio, Bagwell, & co absolutely melting in the playoffs... or hte Padres getting hot. The Padres had no right to be in the World Series... much like the Cubs don't this year . Luck is a huge factor. ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news. [This message has been edited by haven (edited July 23, 2001).]
Did nobody in the Astros organization notice that Lima's ERA was dramatically better in the Astrodome and that a flyball pitcher might not fare well at Enron? I find it hard to believe that Gerry Hunsicker (a pretty smart GM) didn't notice this. The Lima signing was idiocy. Depends on how you look at it. On one hand, there was reason to expect a performance decline. On the other hand, he was young and improving. He also brought fans to the games -- thus recouping some of the money. And, he signed for far below market value. A pitcher that won 37 games in two years generally goes for much more than $6M per year. He *really* wanted to stay in Houston and he was willing to take less to do so. Given all that, I don't think it was a bad move. If he had pitched like he did on the road in '98 and '99 at Enron, he'd have been fine. Instead, he went psycho and just lost it completely -- at home and on the road. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
Shanna: I think Lima's biggest problem is his self-confidence. I don't think his stuff really declined until after a few of those flyballs went out of the park that used to settle into Alou's glove. He always thrived on emotion; once things went south for him, he sank with it. Wins are a poor way of evaluating performance. I mean, that has as much to do with having great hitters behind you as anything else. Put Greg Maddux on the Expos, and even he's unlikely to win more than 12 games. Plop Brian Bohannon on the Yankees, and he could win 15. Although nobody expected Enron to be quite the hitters' park it is, I still think that they should have restructured the team accordingly. Give yourself the best change to win at home. Flyball hitters... strikeout/groundball pitchers. I think Lima still has a future... but in a place like Dodger Stadium. I know his ERA was almost as bad on the road as at home this year, but I still hope he could recover given time. ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.
Haven I totally agree on the RJ trade, anyone who wouldn't do that deal everyday of the week and twice on sunday is a fool. Not sure why you or Gerry would be surprised that Jeff and Craig melted in the playoffs though, they have done it EVERYTIME we have made it there. ------------------ Now this shirt is chafing me
$8 million a year IS a lot in MLB dollars, especially for a guy who isn't a true standout. The Astro's total payroll is $60 mil. The highest team/player average is NYR, at $3.541M per player. According to ESPN, he's getting $3.5 mil this year, which would be OK if he'd get his numbers up to where they should be. For comparison, the top 5 Astros are: Biggio, 7.75M, Reynolds, 7.17M, Bagwell 6.5M, Alou, 5.25M, and Wagner, 5M. The biggest steals on the team are Berkman, who will bring home $305,000, and Miller, at $241,000. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/salaries?team=hou I wasn also very upset at the Astro's trading away Meulusky. In hindsight though, I can see why they did it. With Ausmus, they lost some hitting power but gained a veteran catcher who fields well. With all of the young pitchers coming up, and one starter with a confidence problem (Lima), it makes sense to put an experienced catcher behind the plate -- someone who knows how to guide and evaluate his staff. When the veteran starters come up, like Reynolds, the Astros can always start Eusabio, who provides all the offense Melusky did. Not to mention in hindsight -- Melusky's injury would have left us without a starting catcher, period. ------------------ Stay Cool...
About the long-term deals... Houston really hasn't made terrific decisions concerning the long-term deals. Bagwell was the only one they awarded that was really justified. Biggio: He's old for a 2b. It's silly to give out long, large contracts for players that look to decline at their position. Biggio's my favorite player, btw. Hidalgo: he has one good year and they break the bank. Before that, he'd been decent. Doh. Drabek: Decent risk, but he really only had two stand-out years before that, I believe. The Astros have made bad decisions regarding free agency. You give huge contracts to players who are: 1. young, 2. have at least and 2-3 years of success. Unless, of course, you have an unlimited amount of money like the Yankees. Too many players have one great year... and never another. ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.
