Well I don't know about this random increase in skills thing. Cat, Can you tell us how much a player's ability increases or decreases on average? Are we talking leaps and bounds for some players, or is every increase/decrease in skill not really that much? The random career ending injury is a little too scary for me to want to do. The idea that was juggled around about the common draft is kind of growing on me, I don't mind us having one more common draft and then no more common drafts. As far as retirements, I think that idea is okay, but we need to find a way to compensate the GM that loses a player to retirement. For Example If you lose an impact starter (Malone, Mutumbo, etc) to retirement, that GM can take a player from a non-gm team. I know a player from the Warriors won't make up for the loss in a Karl Malone, but it's better than nothing... If you lose an average player that doesn't have serious value (Polynice, Ewing, Olajuwon, etc) then you don't get any compensation. These items need to be discussed though because players like Olajuwon and Ewing are nearing that retirement age... This league will start to lose it's "sim" value when you have 40 year olds winning Defensive Player of the Year. ------------------ You must always give the Dream back his change!
BGM I agree with you on the Career ending injury thing. I would hate to lose a key player to that. But what makes it even scarier is the thought of no general draft. This is going to make sure that GM's that have teams that were stripped won't get quality players until like the 4th rookie draft. If we don't draft rookies every season then we could end up playing 8-10 seasons before we see any of the new GM's be worth a crap. Having no draft will severely limit the trade opportunities of the new GM's. all they will have to trade is an occasional rookie pick. No one is going to want to trade them for their scrubs so the only way for them to get better is to trade a rookie pick or wait a few seasons and hope a rookie pick pans out and becomes a star. In my mind that will make simming suck. we will always know who the basically good teams will be and will know whose team stinks. I can understand the arguement from some of the owners of good teams that don't want to lose good players to the draft. The competition in the league shouldn't be about who signed up first and got good teams,picked up stars from other teams and are now trying to keep them from being taken by the have nots. It should be about making good decisions as a GM that will keep your team competitve even though you may lose a quality player. One way to maybe compromise would be to extend the draft to 3 rounds and/or extend the players eligible to be dropped to the top 7 rather than top 5. Thenmost teams could drop 5,6,7 rather than 4,5. CK ------------------ CC.Net Sim Homepage For stats, standings and team information. [This message has been edited by Castor27 (edited May 14, 2001).]
You're arguing with the wrong dude Castor. I've argued for a while that the draft should stay, but I get the idea that my vote for never ending the general draft concept is not enough. So I'm just going to accept it and try to put a positive spin on it. My only worry goes to teams like the Knicks and Pacers. It's hard to believe they're actually good, but they'll never be good enough to win it all without future general drafts. In a perfect world, we could strip every team in the league and have a randomized draft of 12 rounds where every GM builds their own team. It's kind of late for that though, and you have GM's that have worked hard to pull their deals, the last thing they want to see happen is their players going away because of the common draft. My team's fine with or without the draft though because I planned my team out assuming worst case scenario. Instead of relying on rules that could favor my team, I just assumed everything I wouldn't want to happen, would happen and my team is fairly solid no matter what kind of new rules we plan on using. I guess we'll just have to wait until the end of this season and the next common draft to see what this league needs to do to make it as competitive as possible... ------------------ You must always give the Dream back his change!
Sorry if it seamed I was directing that at you. I had actually posted an addendum at the end saying that I really meant for the first sentence to be for you and the rest to be gfeneral commentary. I took it out because it didn't flow well with the message. I am kinda in the same boat as you. I have tradeable commodities and could survive without the common draft but I just don't see it being fun anymore if we have 4-5 teams that are always good because they have the talent and never lose it and 4-5 teams that are always terrible because their teams got stripped and it takes to long for them to make up the talent from the rookie drafts. Ck ------------------ CC.Net Sim Homepage For stats, standings and team information.
Well, I'm new so I guess my vote doesn't count as much. But it doesn't seem right to close down the general draft completely. It's like saying OK, I've built my all-star team, now we can keep the status quo. Well me and rimmy and the other new owners have taken over teams that lost their good players. Like BGM said, we won't be competitive for a long time without access to some of the league's talent. I'm not complaining, I'm just saying that it is more fun when you've got some sort of competitive balance, or at least the hope of becoming competitive in the near future... ------------------ Don't you have any friends? Well ... the Superfriends.
It seems like this draft argument will boil down between the GM's that inherited nice talent to build a team with versus the GM's that have started out with a lot less. Sounds like baseball to me... ------------------ You must always give the Dream back his change! [This message has been edited by Band Geek Mobster (edited May 14, 2001).]
i dont think u eliminate the draft, but what i do think is u give up two bench guys or a starter and a benchie because most of us who have already started have built strong teams all the way down thus that way we can keep our good work intact plus u guys will be getting nice future pieces compared to what u have now.. ------------------ How Sweet It Is! How Sweet It Is! Gene Peterson on the rockets winning the 1995 championship over the Orlando Magic
I like the idea of giving up 3 of your top 7 players. The only problem is trying to agree on who your top 7 are... Maybe we could convert our draft to that format after this upcoming 2 round draft. ------------------ You must always give the Dream back his change! [This message has been edited by Band Geek Mobster (edited May 14, 2001).]
It will not close down completly for a while atleast. Cat stated in another thread about the draft that we will have a common draft as we had just before this season (2) for next season too (3): (3): You give up 2 starters to the draftpool. As it might not be clear cut whoyour starters where, you will be allowed to pick from players you have started consistenly during the season. That will allow you to give up players from your top 6-7. There are some rules connected to who you will be able to give to the draft. Togive an example I decided that I wanted to keep A. Iverson, D. Mutumbo and S. Marion and give up 2 others this year. Cat allowed me to chosewho I wanted to give up from T. Hill/J. Howard and E. Snow/S. Nash. I could not give up 2 players from the same positon/players that never consistently played together, so I could not give up both Snow and Nash or Hill and Howard. What made it possible for me to chose from all these players was that they had very simular production and they had all been starting considerably for the team. I ended up giving Hill and Snow to the draft, and they were also the pair that had started most of the games. This rule will be available this year too, but you will not be allowed to tank by keeping a player of your team to protect him. They should produce somewhat simular numbers - there should be a reason that the player given up got to start. When you have to submit your players to the draft-pool The Cat will decide what players/combos are available for you. (4): You will submit 1 player from your top5 to the draft. Cat will decide who your top5 players are. There will only be a 1 round common draft. (5): There will be a 1 round common draft this year too. Cat might decide to allow to submit on of your top bench players. (protect top 6-7 or so) (6..): What will happen with the common draft after season 5 is not decided yet. It might go away, be tuned more down, or continue giving up 1 player from your bench. Of course this can all change if this is not enough to even out the field. Time will tell. And The Cat is Stern of this league. ------------------ The CC.net NBA Sim Homepage - Rosters & Stats - Official Trades
DING DING, yes thats the idiot bell. please dont bring this irrelevent argument into my thread the draft thing is the least of the worries. the other suggestions i made were directly structured so as to allow any team to become better or worse much like in the real NBA. with retirement my team will definately get worse. and NO i shouldnt get compensated. sure I get the benefits of malone, but did the bulls get bvetter when MJ retired?? NO!! ok im not mad, but come on.. also if you are so worried that the big boys(me) will never get worse, and the scrubs will never get better, than make the rookie draft mean more.. hell its not like yor average team is gona lose 2 players to feeagency EVERY year. and its not like they are guarenteed to pick up 2 WORSE players every year. THAT is unfair. in order to award you guts who are extremely poor managers, or just new to the league I suggest you take advantage of your rookie picks. thise rookie picks will make your team better. and guys like me and smegg will get garbage players in the draft. everyone here should be lobbying to cat for him to make 1-3 super stars every year for the rookie draft. I worked my ass off making kick ass trades to get an extremely bad ass roster. I than lost 2 legit stars to the draft. in return i got a good player(who i am now forced to start) and a guy that was soso on a non gm team last season. at the end of this season I will lose my new ok players(the starter) as well as another star. at that point I am quite willing to retire. because all i will receive is the hope of another mediocre player, and a rookie. a rooke withthe skills of a slightly oblong stne(i will liiely have a pick in the mid 20s. put yourself in my shoes, and tell me if you thing that would be fun?? hell no, all I can do is loose talent. if I could keep most of my roster(say lose one player to the common draft, than rely on a 2 round rookie draft at least we could have the little guys improve signifigantly while the big guys only loose a little bit of talent. the only way i can get better now is if I trade away all future picks for a player or two. as far as career ending injury, WHY are you scared. guys like me and nomar have the most to fear. we have the biggest sars, hell i could see cat scared, but there are like 500 players, what is the chance it is gonna be your one star(mcdyce) or who ever you have castor? there are 3 stars on my team, and i am more than willing to assume the risk. especially if there was a slight chance that I would get one of the 10 or so break out players. lets spice it up, or otherwise this is my last season peace, and smile alot more. its all fake, who gives a rats aff if a playerg dies, its all fake, and we can restart in 2 more seasons anyway peace ------------------ Hanta-Force Paintball www.hanta-force.com
DING DING, yes thats the idiot bell. please dont bring this irrelevent argument into my thread the draft thing is the least of the worries. the other suggestions i made were directly structured so as to allow any team to become better or worse much like in the real NBA. with retirement my team will definately get worse. and NO i shouldnt get compensated. sure I get the benefits of malone, but did the bulls get bvetter when MJ retired?? NO!! ok im not mad, but come on.. also if you are so worried that the big boys(me) will never get worse, and the scrubs will never get better, than make the rookie draft mean more.. hell its not like yor average team is gona lose 2 players to feeagency EVERY year. and its not like they are guarenteed to pick up 2 WORSE players every year. THAT is unfair. in order to award you guts who are extremely poor managers, or just new to the league I suggest you take advantage of your rookie picks. thise rookie picks will make your team better. and guys like me and smegg will get garbage players in the draft. everyone here should be lobbying to cat for him to make 1-3 super stars every year for the rookie draft. I worked my ass off making kick ass trades to get an extremely bad ass roster. I than lost 2 legit stars to the draft. in return i got a good player(who i am now forced to start) and a guy that was soso on a non gm team last season. at the end of this season I will lose my new ok players(the starter) as well as another star. at that point I am quite willing to retire. because all i will receive is the hope of another mediocre player, and a rookie. a rooke withthe skills of a slightly oblong stne(i will liiely have a pick in the mid 20s. put yourself in my shoes, and tell me if you thing that would be fun?? hell no, all I can do is loose talent. if I could keep most of my roster(say lose one player to the common draft, than rely on a 2 round rookie draft at least we could have the little guys improve signifigantly while the big guys only loose a little bit of talent. the only way i can get better now is if I trade away all future picks for a player or two. as far as career ending injury, WHY are you scared. guys like me and nomar have the most to fear. we have the biggest sars, hell i could see cat scared, but there are like 500 players, what is the chance it is gonna be your one star(mcdyce) or who ever you have castor? there are 3 stars on my team, and i am more than willing to assume the risk. especially if there was a slight chance that I would get one of the 10 or so break out players. lets spice it up, or otherwise this is my last season peace, and smile alot more. its all fake, who gives a rats aff if a playerg dies, its all fake, and we can restart in 2 more seasons anyway peace ------------------ Hanta-Force Paintball www.hanta-force.com
Well you had a pretty good team even before the first draft - going 11-1. ------------------ The CC.net NBA Sim Homepage - Rosters & Stats - Official Trades
Your so vain, you prolly think this song is about you ... Come on VOR, sing man, sing! ------------------ I am an invisible man.
Okay, do whatever you guys want to do, I keep finding myself getting caught trying to defend every team but my own. My team kicks ass, no matter what we do, it will still kick ass. I'll do whatever anyone else does, but we better not stop this sim after a season because I set up my lineup to win in a season or two or even three. I didn't get the 2004 all-star team just to watch a bunch of bored GM's give up. Next season is the season the Jazz finally win it all. <u>Current Lineup</u> Lafrentz/Bradley/Polynice/Ostertag McDyess/Coleman Miles/Lewis/Manning Starks/Kukoc Jackson/Anderson/Vaughn Take out Starks and Jackson (2 very old dudes) for the general draft, then let me draft 4 more players who were starters on other teams and what do I have? A dynasty! As long as we go more than one season I'll be happy because I'll be collecting the Band Geek Mobster Cup! (Yes VOR, they'll change the name from the VOR Cup to the BGM Cup because I'll dominate this league for many more seasons to come!) Someone needs to start a trashtalk thread... ------------------ You must always give the Dream back his change!
I think alot of mettling with the league is crazy, but i do have some crazy ideas as well first of all I thing that there should be 10 players (or so) a year tht have break out performances(say a 20%increce in ratings) this would be totally random, and would either be random by player, or random by team. one teram theoretically could get all 10 break out players. I bring this up, because from this point forward this league is totally based on fantesy. we dont know if a player like fortson will emerge this season, but it makes sense that one would. same with a dirk nowitski, or t-mac. so there should be a random lottery with the nba players list numberd 1-500 or whatever there is, and do a random number thingie. otherwise do it for the teams. this is important, because teams like myself, the blazers, and jazz can look forward to loosing talent every year due to the draft, and loosing even more through retirement. also it would be another exciting thing for us to look forward to. Coversely there should be 5 or whatever players have loss of skill(off season injury) and they loose some % of skills. now we should also agree that all players MUST retire at 40yrs of age(at end of season). because it is BS for a guy to play longer than parish or kareem there is no way that most players can do that.(and yes I know that will hurt my team with by bevey of older players) it may also be interesting to throw in a few other wild kards. like a career ending injury. one per season. also there shold be a lottery, or another way to keep all. or 4 of your starters at seasons end.(YES I AM CONCERNED) possibly by giving up pick or something finally. I am interested in how you rated Wang. he is on my team, and he did play a little for the mavs last season, I just want to know if you made him any good in terms of this sim. I am particularly interested as my center position is awkward this season. he may be able to shore it up. and now that I am thinking about him. what do you have his natural position listed at? he is more like a SF than a PF or center. lots of curiosity. I wont play him yet, but I am interested in his situation. thanks for your responces in advance. PEACE ------------------ Hanta-Force Paintball www.hanta-force.com
I also agree with some changes. Retire at 40: I would like this to be random. Then you could take a chance on someone that is 39, and hope you get to keep him for 2 seasons. I think the better the player is producing, the bigger chance it shouldbe for him to continue another year. I do feel that Cat should decrease their numbers - lets say 10-20% Rookies - Cat will determine the qualities of the rookies based on what the experts say about them around draft time. I would thinkit would be cool if we got better rookies, by adding 10-20% to their ability. Random outbreak years - Could be cool to have 10 players get random outbreak years. But I'm not sure how this would work. I think that thishad to be done after offseason draft/trades or Cat would know who to draft. And I don't know if these players can be kept a secret for GMs to discover as Cat would know who these players were anyway, and that would be an advantage for him. Or is there a way to have the game create random outbreak for players? Injuries - I'm all in favor of longer injuries/more injuries. Think last season longest injury was not that long (And I did not have a single injury on my team - what is the chance of that happening). I'm not sure on career ending injuries though, but I guess thats also a fact of life. They should not be more frequent than in real life though. All in all - good suggestions VOR. ------------------ The CC.net NBA Sim Homepage - Rosters & Stats - Official Trades
As far as random outbreaks, the game already does this function. Look at Jonathan Bender, Dooling, Demarr Johnson. Players also have off years. Look at Iverson. I dont think it is necessary to toy with that unless it is going to be based on the real NBA. ------------------ I am an invisible man.
Yeah, thats right. Iverson disappeared from the face of the earth on Nomars team. So perhaps there is no need to toy with this. ------------------ The CC.net NBA Sim Homepage - Rosters & Stats - Official Trades
I want to toy with random breakout players. It would make things more interesting for this league. Players retire at 40 too. More realistic injuries as far as length would be nice too. With the random breakout player idea, it's not that hard to set up a system of random numbers. The easiest way to do this would be to have each GM put up 7 players into a pool, they'd get numbered, and then with the use of a random number generator 10 players will have breakout years. There's 23 GM's in this league so that would mean 10 players out of 161 would have a breakout season. It wouldn't be that hard to do. ------------------ You must always give the Dream back his change!
I think that 10 out of 161 would work for me. I also can agree to more realistic injury lengths. I also like Heath's suggestion of retiring guys near 40 not just at 40 maybe some play to 41 maybe some retire at 39. ------------------ CC.Net Sim Homepage For stats, standings and team information.
