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Solving Illegal Immigration

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by thumbs, Jun 15, 2018.

  1. thumbs

    thumbs Contributing Member

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    Immigration, in my opinion, is the thorniest problem of our time. We need rational, effective, prompt solutions that do not break the national piggy bank. The following proposed solutions are not the only ones, but we must first agree what the goals truly are: 1) open borders with no citizenship at all for anyone or 2) elimination of all illegal immigrants within U.S. borders by any lawful means. Most of us, I believe, are trying to find a solution somewhere between those two positions.

    First, I believe a border wall will be too expensive, ineffective and impractical. Second, lottery immigration and chain immigration must end. Third, e-verification must be strictly enforced. Four, dreamers with more than seven years of "residency" should be allowed a path to citizenship -- with the caveat that they have not been convicted of any type of felony prior to earning citizenship by way of military service or meeting educational standards set by Congress and the President.

    Personally, I believe that, with national e-verification, we should painfully penalize employers, large and small, who try to skirt the national e-verify laws. These e-verify laws would also apply to all those companies and individuals who lease/rent to their clientele. With no work and no place to live, immigrants -- along with their children -- would be forced to become legal or avoid "Coming to America" in the first place.

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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  3. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    Illegal immigration stops dead cold if employers were hit with severe penalties. It is just that simple.

    WRT the Dreamers, I think that there has to be a pathway to being legal. They can get in line for citizenship.

    Serving a 6 year stint in the US Military with an honorable discharge should be a pathway to citizenship.

    Until we as a country control our immigration, we can not have a serious discussion wrt what levels of immigration should there be.
     
    #3 No Worries, Jun 15, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
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  4. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    The Democrats are willing to fund a wall before they will allow E-Verify be a part of any immigration deal. Gotta please those donors.
     
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  5. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

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    [​IMG]

    He keeps snapping his fingers but they keep coming.
     
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  6. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Contributing Member
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    Illegal immigration is so far down on the list of problems we need to deal with as a country you need a telescope to see it.
     
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  7. Major

    Major Member

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    I think the first question to ask is "why?" What is the major harm that has been done over the last X years as a result of illegal immigration? Has it caused a crime wave? An employment problem? Does it cost our government? The answer to all of those questions is pretty definitively "no". Immigrants commit crime at lower-than-normal rates. We have the lowest unemployment rate in generations. Immigrants (illegal or otherwise) tend to have a net positive effect on our economy by most studies. They help keep inflation down and as a result, keep interest rates down - meaning not only are things like food cheaper, but so are houses and cars due to loan rates. There's very little statistical evidence that illegal immigrants are any kind of drag on society when accounting for all the different positive and negative effects.

    There are, of course, issues with unchecked immigration - namely the potential of unchecked population growth (ie, open borders). But that kind of thing hasn't really been an issue in a long time - our illegal immigrant population isn't growing and hasn't for some time. It's been a pretty even flow of people in and out (either voluntarily or deportion). So what makes it the thorniest problem of our time? In comparison to, say, gun violence or terrorism or income inequality or trade or any number of other issues.
     
  8. thumbs

    thumbs Contributing Member

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    Major, as usual, I could not disagree with you more. Your assumptions are merely wrong. Crime (MS13 brutalty, human slavery, oppiods and other drugs and welfare fraud are rampant due to illegal immigration. Entry level jobs for teens (yes, I started my career mowing lawns and then as a soda jerk) are diminished so the teen work ethic is diminished. Does it cost our government? Heavens yes! Look at the money that must go to education costs from overcrowded classrooms to school lunches to welfare spikes to the added burdens on the health system.

    With regard to your "studies," most of these are conducted by wildly liberal college professors who package their facts to meet their narrative -- kind of like Hollywood preaching clean environment to the unwashed and then climbing into their gas guzzlers to go to their heavy carbon footprint private jets.

    But, back to the immigration problem. My father was more articulate in Spanish than English because he grew up in the West Side of San Antonio. He was a liberate Democrat (a fervent Ralph Yarborough supporter) was a believer in citizenship. It meant s lot to him. Maybe that's part and parcel of my concern for this issue. But, as an Austinite, I doubt that you ever spend time with Hispanics as I do.
     
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  9. Nook

    Nook Member

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    It wasn’t, until the President decided to make it one.

    There are far more important issues that are not being addressed.
     
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  10. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    This, so much this. @thumbs, this topic is just a glittery object politicians used to distract us and get us sniping at one another.

    [​IMG]

    I mean, maybe we could talk about this in the year 2000, but recent data actually shows more people leaving the US for Mexico than vice versa. I mean, build a dumb wall if it makes the POTUS happy, but we have much bigger problems to talk about.
     
  11. thumbs

    thumbs Contributing Member

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    Please list these bigger problems. I will be interested in seeing what you believe these are. However, forgive me for not responding tonight to any reply you might have. I have dialysis at 5 a.m. and must go to bed now.
     
  12. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    @thumbs , no problem at all. I appreciate your thread and attitude and as always wish you well. I know (second hand) that dialysis is a bear.

    My point is that if a problem is really declining for years, as illegal immigration has been doing, maybe it does not need any focused action.

    I would say we have a few bigger problems:
    * Mental health, suicide, and the opioid epidemic (if you'll allow me to lump these together, since all issues have been on the rise and I see them as intertwined). Our politicians aren't doing anything about these. They are difficult problems that will take a lot of care, patience and clear thought of some bright minds.
    I fully admit I'm a liberal, but I would applaud a serious national effort on mental health before I applauded one on gun control. Being completely straight with you on that, because I feel in my long teaching career, I can see the problem getting worse among our young people. About 10% of young people suffer from fairly serious anxiety or depression.

    * A participatory economy. We now know that, for the first time in a very long time, the latest generations of Americans will probably not lead as comfortable and economically secure lives as their parents. Fewer and fewer people do very well and advance, while more and more can barely eek out enough to pay their monthly bills. I think in all our families we know this to be true. Steps could be taken to turn that trend around, I believe.

    * The cyber-security of our democracy. No matter how anyone feels about our president's election, or Mueller, and all that back and forth, we do all know that a foreign power really tried to mess with our election. We've done very little about that but we could put a great united effort into securing, at the very least, our 2018 and 2020 elections against foreign tampering.

    So, my main point is many serious problems are getting worse, while illegal immigration has been getting better for years. I fear that certain politicians exploit people's natural fear of change and fear of people who seem different from them when these people (immigrants) actually offer very little threat to them or their normal way of life. The problems listed above are much more serious, in my opinion.

    Thanks again for your attitude, which I have always enjoyed. I wish I had as pleasant an agreement with many liberals as I do disagreements with you. LOL. Take care.
     
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  13. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    Illegal immigrants commit fewer crimes.

    Most entry level jobs are not being taken by illegals. It is actually really easy for teenagers to get jobs. The biggest change is that parents give them everything so they don't have to work. When illegal immigration had been cracked down on, it had shown to negatively affect farms because they struggle to find Americans who will do the job.
     
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  14. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    The Democrats. the party not in power, are the straw stirring the drink?
     
  15. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    100% of illegal immigrants are guilty of a crime, you can't say that about the population as a whole, thus more illegal immigrants commit crimes than the population as a whole.
     
  16. TheFreak

    TheFreak Contributing Member

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    I didn’t see anthem protesting on your list. Did it just temporarily slip your mind?
     
  17. thumbs

    thumbs Contributing Member

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    Thanks for the first and last paragraphs. Solving problems is almost impossible when one side or both become irrational with anger or eyes closed to any other point of view.

    First, mental health problems has no real solution in the foreseeable future. The human psyche is just too complex. However, the opioid crisis can be greatly ameliorated by penalizing doctors (and, by default, pharmaceutical companies) who over-prescribe. The second prong of reducing the opioid crisis is by curbing their flow from Mexico and Central/South America. Expedited execution of drug dealers and mules (I know, impossible in our culture and legal system) would be the most effective solution. BTW, the bulk of those mules are illegals trying to find the financial means to get to the U.S. Although not an opioid issue, Illegals are also the victims of human trafficking by those same drug cartels.

    Cyber-security is a huge problem, and, I admit, rivals the immigration problem. However, if we could harness the might and power of our computer/software industry, we could launch counterattacks that would make other countries think twice about these attacks. BTW, election tampering, IMO, is greatly exaggerated. It's a Democratic trumpet sounded only because Hillary lost. Again IMO, she lost because she was a terrible candidate with even greater and worse flaws than President Trump. On a related arena of debate (but not a topic I wish to pursue in this thread) is the corruption of the Justice Department and FBI by Obama and Hillary.
     
  18. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    No

    Illegal immigrants who overstay their visa which is the vast majoirty of illegal immigrants commit a civil violation... You know the same thing that speeding 5 mph over the limit is considered or driving with an expired inspection sticker.

    Do you call people who get a speeding ticket for going 10 over criminals? Nope...

    So be consistent.

    And I'm pretty sure he is referring to violent felonies which even illegally crossing the border isn't considered.
     
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  19. Amiga

    Amiga 80s
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    Where do you go for your info then? You gut feelings? "Your" "studies"? The rejection of data and studies that doesn't match your "narrative" is what I'm hearing.
     
  20. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    This entire illegal immigration situation started 1.5 years ago. Brilliant logic.

    No of course as neither party gives a crap about the USA there are a segment of Republicans protecting restaurant and hotel services for money as well. overwhelmingly it is a negotiating redline and they are willing to grant tens of billions for a wall instead of simply requiring e-verify
     

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