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So what are your DNP's / Inactives really good for anyway?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Nero, Oct 9, 2006.

  1. Nero

    Nero Member

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    Been trying to figure out how this roster is going to shake down.

    As of today, 19 players listed at Rockets.com as being on the roster. 4 of them definintely will be gone.

    That's been a fun topic lately - which four are going to go bye-bye?

    The *locks* (guys of whom it would be inconceivable would be among the 4 cuts):

    1. Yao
    2. TMac
    3. Battier
    4. Wells
    5. Alston
    6. Howard
    7. Head
    8. V-Span
    9. Snyder
    10. Hayes
    11. Lucas
    12. Deke
    (13.) Novak
    (14.) ?
    (15.) ?

    Rather than trying to simply predict who among the remainders of Azubuike, Bowen, Haryasz, Jacobsen, Padgett and Sura will make those final two spots, and who gets shown the door, instead I am trying to figure out exactly what those bench/inactives do to contribute to their teams' success.

    Your bottom three won't be active anyway, and if your 10th, 11th and 12th guys are seeing the floor, you have either had a lot of fouls, an injury, or it's mop-up/garbage time. Your bottom 5 or 6 guys are not really going to be adding a whole lot *during games*.

    So what does it matter anyway? Call me naive, but in the immortal words of AI, 'You talkin bout PRACTICE, man!'

    If you are having to practice against your own guys to get ready for certain upcoming opponents, you need to be able to simulate the other teams fairly well. You need smart, athletic and versatile. And, frankly, you need some variety. You can't very well practice effectively using JL3 as a stand-in for Amare in a practice session.

    So I am trying to think in these terms as we wind our way towards the season. Part of it, I guess, is 'How long is JVG's bench really going to be? How deep is his regular rotation going to go?' I am guessing 9 or 10, with occasional dips a bit deeper.

    But your final 5 guys should be able to perform as a scout team, right?

    As much as I admire Sura and wish he could miraculously recover and produce for us again, I am operating under the assumption that he won't. So strike one from the six.

    And any time you have a guy on your team who, whenever he has the ball in his hands, the other team yells 'Shoot! Shoot!', then you have a problem. JVG is just going to have to give up his man-crush on Rybo. I say strike #2 from the six.

    That leaves Azubuike, Haryasz, Padgett and Jacobsen.

    Of these four, which two would be able to contribute the most in practice?

    Odd as it may sound, I think we have no choice but to keep Haryasz. He is 6'11", and is the only guy in this situation is a legit big-body. He will also be one of the more likely ones to be on the 12-man roster on game days, for that same reason. You have Yao, and Grandfather Time, and nobody else. Haryasz stays.

    Leaving Azubuike, Padgett and Jacobsen to fight for that final spot.

    I think we cut Padgett loose again, so he can hook up with another team and maybe contribute, because I just don't see it here. he and Novak duplicate each other, but Novak is allegedly a better shooter, younger, and cheaper.

    Azubuike or Jacobsen for that final roster spot?

    My gut says that Azubuike offers more athleticism and versatility as a bench/practice player and potentially-develop-able player down the road than Jacobsen does.

    So that's what it looks like, from this pov. Of course, I could be all wrong... I don't really know what goes on in practices or between games. We have heard complaining before that, once the season starts, the teams really don't have much time for actual practice any more, so who knows..

    I suppose it would be good to hear from anyone who actually knows what real role those last 5-6 guys have on their teams, what benefits do teams truly derive from those guys, and does it even really matter above the superficial judgements of 'can he shoot, defend and hustle, an is he not a mistake-machine?' Someone who knows more than me about the day-to-day regular-season routines of the Rockets team would be in a better position to judge whether this is a decent way of looking at it or not.

    Does anyone out there have a good understanding of this subject?
     
  2. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    Having a roster that includes, under most circumstances, 2 guys that don't play each game and 3 guy that are inactive, is extremely valuable for a few reasons.

    1. Development of young players. Obviously, you get time to develop them on the pro level while adding depth.

    2. Injury precautions. Given how many injuries we had last year, it should be self-evident why having a deep roster is important.

    3. Competition. There is nothing like competition for playing time (let alone a roster spot) that breeds better play in practice and during games.

    4. Better practices. Being able to scrimmage against guys who deserve to be on an NBA roster is a HUGE plus over scrimmaging against guys who probably should be in the d-league.
     
  3. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Member

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    I think the key reasons you have the 11th through 15 man is for injury protection and development/keeping future players who are not ready.

    For injury protection, probably keeping the vet with experience, even better with experience in your system, makes sense. Someone like Padgett or Bowen or CJ. (I assume Sura is done as an NBA player)

    For player development, that would include Novak, Haryaz, Abuz. Also, if a player is inactive (still counts toward the 15), we can send them to the NDBL for more game experience. Novak, Haryaz, Abuz, possibly JL3 or VS are all eligible and it might do any of them some good. But JVG may feel it is better for player development to keep them practicing with the team, even if not playing, than in the NDBL.

    My prediction is Jacobsen gets the 14 spot and Padgett or Haryaz gets the 15th spot, we go for veteran wingman shooter (CJ) and an extra big for injury protection
     
  4. awo86

    awo86 Rookie

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    Nero, I agree with your point that our guys should be practice better. That's a very gd point.

    I have to disagrre on your basis that haryass and azubuike should remain on the team. while it is true that we lack big body, that doesn't mean we hav to use haryass as our solution. i dun think theres a chance haryass is needed here even if an injury occurs. if management truely believeds we need a big body, then cato would be on board. besides, u dun scrimmage all da time during practice, so haryass is useless. as to azubuike, hes a guy tat will not be useful to us given we already have kirk snyder. if we want to develop a player, snyder has way more potential than azuibuike.

    I personally would really like a shooter on our roster, therefore i would really wanna see jacobsen stays. i watched him in phoenix and he seems decent. definitely a very capable practice player.

    with that said, i think the bottom line is whoever performs well during october should remain on our team.
     
  5. Yetti

    Yetti Member

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    Novac, Spanoulis & Lucas sure to make the team. I think that the 15th spot will be Bob Sura, who will then retire. So we are looking at 14 others:-
    1YM
    2TMcG
    3Als
    4Sny
    5Bat
    6Wel
    7Hea
    8How
    9Hay
    10Nov
    11Luc111
    12Span
    13Mut leaving one open spot which will hopefully be deduced from training Camp and preseason- JVG Favorites Rybo & Padg- others Jac,Hairy & Azub
     
  6. LFE171

    LFE171 Member

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    man, with all this talk on whose getting cut, we're sounding like this is like survivor or something. :-D maybe should place bets on who will get cut at vegas. jk.

    to answer the question on the DNP's and inactives, it really expands our depth of our roster. since the new cba let us do the activate DNP's a few hours before games, I'm sure jvg will activate his specialists when we need them for that night, then put them on the inactive for other nights. instead of ducking around the IR list, we have the dnp list and its great for game strategies, especially since we can switch up rosters and cause even more mismatchs with our bench-role players.

    and yes, i agree it does help develop younger players, and makes practice very competetive.
     
  7. Yetti

    Yetti Member

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    After to-day's scrimage I see Jacobsen as the one to get the 14th spot .
     
  8. Matchman

    Matchman Member

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    we need as many sharp shooters as we can possibly get

    especially since they are not ray allens or jason terrys, we need a whole bunch of them to make sure we have someone on fire every night

    i would expect Padgett to make the team since he knows the system, can shoot well and actually has a big body to play limited minutes at PF. PFs that can shoot 3s are rare and valueable to our team since we have a post-up SF in Bonzo

    Jacobsen would also make the team because of his sharp-shooting.
     
  9. don grahamleone

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    I say you pick the smartest player left and hope that he can help with his thoughts. I'd rather have a player on the bench contribute with his head because he's never going to see the floor anyway. If he does see the floor, then he'll play smart. TOs and stupid basketball lose games, athletic plays are only good for a Stro-show highlight.
     
  10. chris_Rocket

    chris_Rocket Member

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    IMO, Rybo/Bobby/Jacobsen/Padgett will be released before the regular season.
    Azubuike, Haryasz will be at the 14 or 15 spot
     
  11. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    I say get young guys and then send them to the NBDL. At least they're doing something down there. Making veterans your 14th and 15th guys just seems pointless.
     
  12. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Nero, using the logic of picking guys who will scrimmage the best, I would think Bowen would stay. His offense may be in the toilet, but he'd defend hard and force guys who are practicing offensive sets to perfect themselves.

    Also, I think people may be too quick to put Novak in the list of locks. I could see Padgett winning his spot and Novak going to the NBDL. A guy with size who can shoot is nice, and he's supposed to have a really sweet shot, but I don't see Van Gundy forgiving his other shortcomings just because he can shoot. I won't be too surprised to see him on the roster, but I think NBDL is a distinct possibility as well.
     
  13. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Member

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    Having the player in the NDBL still takes up one of your 15 roster spots. Novak is a lock for one of the 15, even if he has no chance to hit the floor for the Rockets this regular season he at worst will be inactive with the team or inactive in the NDBL. I would think JVG would rather keep him inactive but traveling and practicing with the team over the extra PT in the NDBL.

    Also having a vet like Padgett or Bowen in your last spot does make sense. This is injury protection. If any of your starters goes down you have someone you know you can count on for 10-15 minutes. You just don't know whether Azub or Haryz or Novak will have the deer in the headlights look and hurt your team if they ever have to get PT.

    I still think CJ makes it. He provides shooting and a decently sized and versitle swingman. Also, given Bonzi's has an inconsistent 3 and doesn't pass much, Snyder is an x-factor (boom or bust-doghouse, 50/50), VSpan is an unknown for the NBA, and Head is short for an SG, CJ provides another swingman with a good chance to meld with the starters. Azub is a possibility here, but CJ is more of a veteran and known commodity, I think he is the choice.

    Padgett is likely for the 15th spot unless 1) SP looks to have really gone downhill in the last 2 years OR 2) Novak looks great in practice and JVG thinks he is ready for real minutes. If I were betting SP and CJ are the last two spots over Abuz, Haryz, Bowen.
     
  14. Nero

    Nero Member

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    Ok, well, after last night's pre-season opener, a couple of things really stuck out, regarding these issues.

    #1 - Hayes starting at center in place of Deke, who everyone assumed would be the starter in place of the recuperating Yao. Chuckie playing the 5 in a medium-ball/small-ball lineup was exTREMEly effective, and came as a pretty big surprise.

    Unless this was just a wild hair on JVG's part, I think this answers one of the final roster spot questions: Haryasz. Even though the kid played fairly well, and offered up a good bit of hustle - looked like a decent young player actually, he becomes redundant if Hayes can man the third center backup spot.

    #2 - Jacobsen looks like a decent energy player, but he looks like the same kind of decent young energy player we had last year, who couldn't hit any shots. Unless I missed it, I don't believe he hit any of his shots. And was he playing point? Uh, well, not sure how that is going to go. Anyway, maybe this was just an off night shooting for him, but unless he steps up in the next preseason games and shows a good ability to hit his shots, I don't see him taking up a roster spot. I predict he will show better next time, though, so we'll just have to cross our fingers and wait and see. But if he can't then he should be gone.

    #3 - Azubuike. Oh boy. Feel pretty sorry for the kid, but there is no way, at least not this year. Maybe he needs to go the Mario Elie route, and play overseas for a few years, get himself polished, and then come back and try again, because he is completely outclassed at this level right now.

    #4 - I guess I didn't really expect Wells or Howard to play, but why didn't Luther see the floor?

    #5 - Padgett. (Will SOMEBODY please tell Bill Worrell that his name is NOT pronounced 'pageant'???? I swear I am going to come down to the arena and choke that dude if he doesn't stop mispronouncing the guy's name!!) Scotty looked comfortable, and he did hit one outside shot. And I understand the arguments to keeping a veteran on the end of the bench whom you can at least halfway trust. But he didn't thrill and amaze, like...

    #6 - Novak! Wow. I mean, HOOO!!! Holy mackarel, we have been told that the kid can shoot, but dayumm!! There's no way JVG is going to be able to NOT put this kid in games. But man he sure needs work in every other area of his game. If he ever manages to become decent on defense, blocking out, maybe grabbing a few rebounds, and for God's sake, learning how to do an entry pass on offense, then this kid will go down as the steal of this past draft. What an amazing shooter.

    #7 - V-Span. Hmm. Dude is a lot smaller than we had been led to believe. Heck, he's downright shrimpy. He's definitely going to have to learn to make his living as a point. There were some positive things, but it's clear he is going to have a lot of adjusting to do. In spite of what the front page says, he did in fact make one of his outside shots last night, in addition to that nice little layup among the trees. Maybe he can be our Scotty Brooks.

    #8 - Snyder looked pretty good, but unless he has just flat-out been told by JVG not to shoot from the outside (which I doubt) then he definitely needs to go ahead and look for his shot on the perimeter (when it's there, which it was several times last night) instead of always trying to force it into the inside. He is big and athletic though, and looks to be playing good defense.

    #8 - Battier. Has a pretty good shot from the sides - didn't look all that great from the top of the arc - and plays hellacious defense and hustles and hits the floor like a madman. 8 and 7 in one half, well, let's extrapolate that out into a full game, let's say averages of @14/10 will be easy for him, I think. No longer any reason for Rybo to be on this team, with Battier here.

    #9 - Jl3 needs to just settle down. It looked to me like he was way wired up, and not playing with the loose confidence he reportedly had in the summer. Based on what he showed in bits last year, as well as over the summer, I believe he will be fine, but last night he was not the definition of 'poetry in motion'.

    #10 - TMac might even look better than he did during his first year here - that's how good he looked. The rest of the NBA better get ready.

    #11 - Alston looks like he has been working on his shot. Looked good. We're ok with him. Especially when compared with how things bogged down when he wasn't in there. So what's the plan behind Alston going to be? That's a scary one - TMac, JL3, V-Span, or even Jacobsen? Ouch. One of those youngsters better step up.



    All in all, it looked great in the first half, when our actual player were playing (but still not even including Bonzi, Yao or Howard). But the question of the final roster spots, well, I know my guesstimation originally was that Haryasz and Azubuike stay, but I think that is probably going to have to change. Azubuike has no shot, and Haryasz is expendable with Chuckie doing his best Ben Wallace impersonation. That leaves, probably, Jacobsen and Padgett making the squad.

    Fine by me.
     
  15. smoothie

    smoothie Jabari Jungle

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    i have to dissagree. azubuike and haryasz will be the first 2 cuts made. these guys are dead weight. they aren't nba players at all.

    JVG said that we might go into the season with only 14 players. i think it might look like this:

    yao-hayes-deke
    shane-jho-novak
    tmac-snyder-bowen
    bonzi-head
    rafer-billy-lucas
     
  16. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Member

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    Replace Bowen with CJ and I am fine with that.

    But why not keep Haryaz (fyler) or Abuz (fyler) or Padgett/Bowen (emergency vets) just in case? For practice, for retaining rights for a flyer. I see no reason not to use the last spot unless there is a better player for it.
     

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